alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects

Wed Apr 16 09:27:51 EDT 2025

Good Day Carlos,
In my experience with Alice, she does get cranky when there's not enough
RAM and also if the video card capabilities are not more than enough. I
used Alice 2 for a while after Alice 3 emerged because our RAM /video combo
wasn't enough. Especially when programs grew.
Regarding the Dell 7000 you use; 1) Is the video card the integrated
onboard kind? If so, it shares system RAM with the GPU so that is a
potential bottleneck for Alce 3 to remain happy. Adding additional RAM is
cheap and simple. I used that opportunity to also teach about hardware and
the simple act of putting in more RAM chips is an impactful lesson.
Also in my experience, Alice gets cranky when using network drives
especially when the backup files are stored elsewhere besides the hard
drive in the Dell 7000.
I'd look where the *.bak files are saved. Alice automatically puts them in
the same directory as the project file (*.a3p) the first time the project
is saved. If your students are saving files, then moving or copying the a3p
file, that's a significant thing that Alice won't like. Using Save As...
the first time a project is saved is important so the .bak is in the same
directory as the .a3p and they don't change. Alice gets upset if .bak files
are moved, changed, or in any way not as they were when they were created
on the first Save. Also, I've had kids open projects by double clicking on
a file from the .bak directory thinking it is their primary project file.
They actually are opening a backup version of their project. Then when they
save it again it creates cascading .bak directories inside of .bak
directories and it gets a nice recursion on the operating system loaded up
sucking up all the RAM really fast. Add on top of that the need to pipe it
through the network connections (traffic flow is high at the beginning and
end of the period as well) when they all are accessing it at once, Alice
will not be happy.
I'd next look at the network storage access. If there are any blockers,
security, etc she gets cranky sometimes for those too. I'd recommend USB
drives (small sized ones are practically free and more than enough storage.
Some companies give out promo ones with their logo on it). The USB drive
really helps, too, with networked computers as well since they act as a
local drive.
Sorry for the long post. I re-read your message and it seems that she
crashes every 10-20 mins which coincides with a .bak (backup) action. IMO
do some testing with a project saved to a USB flash drive and be sure the
primary file is the one being opened and saved each time. The .bak
directory should rarely be used.
Check back when you try some stuff. Alice 2 and 3 are the greatest learning
platform for OOP and I'd back that up anyday anywhere. The online internet
based stuff is good, but Alice is great for impactful, meaningful, and
lasting learning. Her drawback (that she is a standalone .exe needing RAM
and graphics and local access) is also a strength when we can use the
opportunity to teach about directories, networks, and hardware limitations.
It is not an easy path like tapping on Ipads, Chromebooks, and phones but
that may not be the CS path you want to teach.
Adam Ziccardi

On Tue, Apr 15, 2025 at 5:02 PM Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers <
alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:

> Hi James,
>
> Thanks for responding. It hasn't been our experience that Alice 3 saves
> backups for students. If there's a setting for that, maybe that could help
> mitigate the problem. Although I have the students trying to save as often
> as they remember to, there have been a few times where Alice 3 suddenly
> crashes/closes with the last 10-20 minutes' worth of work lost. When it
> happens to the same student — even just twice — they become less motivated
> to put forth effort and start saying things to me like, "This app is
> trash." I saw it happen to two students and a third student claims it
> happened to him too. This third student has tried three different student
> stations because his Alice 3 worlds keep freezing. We are saving our worlds
> to a network drive. Could that have something to do with it? (I've used
> Alice 3 for the last part of the school year for years now and this is the
> first time we've had this issue.)
>
> If others have had similar issues and especially found a workaround, I'd
> be happy to try to problem solve. Otherwise, we'll change direction and
> work with the Finches until the end of the school year.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Carlos Bovell
> Northern Burlington High School
> ------------------------------
> *From:* alice-teachers <alice-teachers-bounces+cbovell=
> nburlington.com at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> on behalf of Vanderhyde, James <
> vanderhyde at sxu.edu>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 10, 2025 2:25 PM
> *To:* Alice educators <alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students
> working on projects
>
> EXTERNAL EMAIL - This email was sent by a person from outside of the
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> Carlos, I don’t see it happen in class too much, but the students report
> crashes while working on homework projects. I remind them that Alice saves
> backup files, so they may not have lost everything. They are in the same
> folder as the project, with the Alice project name as the name of the
> backup folder.
>
> James
> —
>
> *James Vanderhyde *Associate Professor
> Computer Science
> Saint Xavier University
> 3700 W. 103rd St.
> Chicago, IL 60655
> 773-298-3454
> vanderhyde at sxu.edu
> sxu.edu
>
> On Apr 10, 2025, at 11:21 AM, Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers <
> alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>
> *[EXTERNAL EMAIL]* CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the
> organization.
> Help! Morale is getting low. Alice 3 is closing suddenly on students
> without warning. We are using Dell Optiplex 7000s Windows 11 Pro. Anyone
> else familiar with something like this happening?
>
> Carlos Bovell
> Northern Burlington High School
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-- 
Adam Ziccardi
OPTA Flex coordinator
OPTA NYSTRS delegate
NYS Master Teacher <https://www.suny.edu/masterteacher/cohort/western/#z>
Teacher Webpage <https://www.opschools.org/Domain/2958>
(716) 209-6482
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