<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Good Day Carlos,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">In my experience with Alice, she does get cranky when there's not enough RAM and also if the video card capabilities are not more than enough. I used Alice 2 for a while after Alice 3 emerged because our RAM /video combo wasn't enough. Especially when programs grew.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Regarding the Dell 7000 you use; 1) Is the video card the integrated onboard kind? If so, it shares system RAM with the GPU so that is a potential bottleneck for Alce 3 to remain happy. Adding additional RAM is cheap and simple. I used that opportunity to also teach about hardware and the simple act of putting in more RAM chips is an impactful lesson.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Also in my experience, Alice gets cranky when using network drives especially when the backup files are stored elsewhere besides the hard drive in the Dell 7000.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">I'd look where the *.bak files are saved. Alice automatically puts them in the same directory as the project file (*.a3p) the first time the project is saved. If your students are saving files, then moving or copying the a3p file, that's a significant thing that Alice won't like. Using Save As... the first time a project is saved is important so the .bak is in the same directory as the .a3p and they don't change. Alice gets upset if .bak files are moved, changed, or in any way not as they were when they were created on the first Save. Also, I've had kids open projects by double clicking on a file from the .bak directory thinking it is their primary project file. They actually are opening a backup version of their project. Then when they save it again it creates cascading .bak directories inside of .bak directories and it gets a nice recursion on the operating system loaded up sucking up all the RAM really fast. Add on top of that the need to pipe it through the network connections (traffic flow is high at the beginning and end of the period as well) when they all are accessing it at once, Alice will not be happy.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">I'd next look at the network storage access. If there are any blockers, security, etc she gets cranky sometimes for those too. I'd recommend USB drives (small sized ones are practically free and more than enough storage. Some companies give out promo ones with their logo on it). The USB drive really helps, too, with networked computers as well since they act as a local drive.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Sorry for the long post. I re-read your message and it seems that she crashes every 10-20 mins which coincides with a .bak (backup) action. IMO do some testing with a project saved to a USB flash drive and be sure the primary file is the one being opened and saved each time. The .bak directory should rarely be used.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Check back when you try some stuff. Alice 2 and 3 are the greatest learning platform for OOP and I'd back that up anyday anywhere. The online internet based stuff is good, but Alice is great for impactful, meaningful, and lasting learning. Her drawback (that she is a standalone .exe needing RAM and graphics and local access) is also a strength when we can use the opportunity to teach about directories, networks, and hardware limitations. It is not an easy path like tapping on Ipads, Chromebooks, and phones but that may not be the CS path you want to teach.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Adam Ziccardi</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 15, 2025 at 5:02 PM Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers <<a href="mailto:alice-teachers@lists.andrew.cmu.edu">alice-teachers@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-6561242466017583256">
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Hi James,</div>
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Thanks for responding. It hasn't been our experience that Alice 3 saves backups for students. If there's a setting for that, maybe that could help mitigate the problem. Although I have the students trying to save as often as they remember to, there have been
a few times where Alice 3 suddenly crashes/closes with the last 10-20 minutes' worth of work lost. When it happens to the same student — even just twice — they become less motivated to put forth effort and start saying things to me like, "This app is trash."
I saw it happen to two students and a third student claims it happened to him too. This third student has tried three different student stations because his Alice 3 worlds keep freezing. We are saving our worlds to a network drive. Could that have something
to do with it? (I've used Alice 3 for the last part of the school year for years now and this is the first time we've had this issue.)</div>
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If others have had similar issues and especially found a workaround, I'd be happy to try to problem solve. Otherwise, we'll change direction and work with the Finches until the end of the school year.</div>
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Sincerely,</div>
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Carlos Bovell</div>
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Northern Burlington High School</div>
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<div id="m_-6561242466017583256divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> alice-teachers <alice-teachers-bounces+cbovell=<a href="mailto:nburlington.com@lists.andrew.cmu.edu" target="_blank">nburlington.com@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>> on behalf of Vanderhyde, James <<a href="mailto:vanderhyde@sxu.edu" target="_blank">vanderhyde@sxu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 10, 2025 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alice educators <<a href="mailto:alice-teachers@lists.andrew.cmu.edu" target="_blank">alice-teachers@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects</font>
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Carlos, I don’t see it happen in class too much, but the students report crashes while working on homework projects. I remind them that Alice saves backup files, so they may not have lost everything. They are in the same folder as the project, with the Alice
project name as the name of the backup folder.
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<div>James<br id="m_-6561242466017583256x_lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
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<font face="Arial">—<br>
<b>James Vanderhyde<br>
</b>Associate Professor<br>
Computer Science<br>
Saint Xavier University<br>
3700 W. 103rd St.<br>
Chicago, IL 60655<br>
773-298-3454</font></div>
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<font face="Arial"><a href="mailto:vanderhyde@sxu.edu" target="_blank">vanderhyde@sxu.edu</a></font></div>
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<div>On Apr 10, 2025, at 11:21 AM, Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers <<a href="mailto:alice-teachers@lists.andrew.cmu.edu" target="_blank">alice-teachers@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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Help! Morale is getting low. Alice 3 is closing suddenly on students without warning. We are using Dell Optiplex 7000s Windows 11 Pro. Anyone else familiar with something like this happening? </div>
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Carlos Bovell</div>
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Northern Burlington High School</div>
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