alice-teacher Help! Alice being replaced by Python in my intro classes

Thu Mar 11 08:56:58 EST 2021

Hello Alice forum,
I'm mostly lurking but this topic hit a listener. The way I teach is OOP
first and foremost. Alice does that for us very well. She's been our
mainstay for the last decade and we do new things every semester. After a
while learning to build worlds and use the controls our Tea Party is set.
Then, we go right down the rabbit hole creating new and exciting things for
the existing classes and their myriad of instances. Inheritance is natural,
extending classes is natural, creativity is natural. Our APCS-A kids are so
successful after Alice I couldn't imagine teaching APCS-A without her
anymore. The learning references to Enhanced Clever Skaters and Gorilla
Robots makes learning APCS-A so nice. Hanoi and skeletons make recursion so
nice. public void mystery () motivates about 5% of people. Alice motivates
the other 95% too.
Then we go all online with Chromebooks where Alice can't operate.
The CMU CSAcademy is a fantastic option that motivates, encourages, allows
for differentiation, and again, is full of creativity opportunities. We
can't go back to yesterday because we were different people then. The
Python subset used is great. The support from CMU is second to none. The
kids are learning instantiation, property changes, methods, and adding
properties in addition to the classic CS stuff controls, conditionals,
collections, etc. Lacking is inheritance and extensions. Notably too,
though, is the APCS-A's perceptible shift away from this as well. Unit 9
seems cursory to me anyhow, way at the end of the year. 80% of the course
is learned inside of: public static void main(String args[]). Don't ask me
what that means, just have to do it is a crappy way to present the
course curriculum. It works, but...
So back to your administrator. I was at a WNY STEM conference filling in
last minute for a teacher/speaker. There were about 100 people there for
free dinner and updates. I asked how many teachers, how many
corporate sponsors, how many administrators each by a show of hands. I had
to know the room. The administrators were about 60-70 percent. One of them
asked the best way to choose a class/subject/language. I
unequivocally stated "you support whatever your CS teacher wants to do. Get
them what they ask for and make budgetary decisions. Leave the curriculum
to the teacher." I explained none of the buzzwords work for school age
introductory students. Attraction and retention for every person we have in
our buildings is a good goal. Learn the stuff with your kids, not for them.
We're not in the industry, we're in high school or middle school. The
language du jour may be Python but it won't be in X years/months/weeks. I
had a college prof who said "Adam, you gotta learn APL. C will be dead in
two years." So we did a lot of APL for 3 years. Ever heard of APL? We all
know what's written in C. But we learned a lot of CS that is transferable.
I suggest communicating with your Red Queen that the Forums/supports are
all there for whatever you want to teach. Student enrollment and interest
are at the core of our decision making. It's not about the language and
that CS is more about the content and the adventure. Then learning which
languages apply to the app situation will have strength and meaning.
Lastly, I do not believe for a second that APCS-P is a precursor to APCS-A.
It could be but there is not a linear progression from P to A. Alice is
better at APCS-A prep than anything I've seen or done. CSAcademy will be my
close second while we are all online. Once we are 100% back FTF, I'll offer
both and see where it goes.
Thanks. Curricularly: meet the kids where they are at and stretch them out
where they can go. If they don't know where they want to go it doesn't
matter much how you get there. We are all mad here...just illuminate a path.
AZ

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 4:29 PM Art Lopez <mr.arturo.lopez at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Carlos and all,
>
> My name is Art Lopez and I serve on the Board of Directors for the
> Computer Science Teachers Association as the 9 - 12 representative. I am
> involved with CS for All and advocate for Equity Access and broadening
> participation of underserved and underrepresented groups (women, diversity
> or children of color, and other groups) in computer science. I think this
> is a really great topic of discussion for this list-serve, and appreciate
> the contributions from everyone on this thread.
>
> Dr. Jeff Gray of the University of Alabama and his colleagues, including
> co-author Caitlin Kelleher, had written a paper in Communications of the
> ACM ( Association of Computing Machinery) about the benefits and
> opportunities for using block languages for teaching students about
> programming and computer science; there is also a video provided by
> co-author Caitlin Kelleher.
>
>    - Video: http://bit.ly/cacm-2017
>    <https://milton-web.wnyric.org/canit/urlproxy.php?_q=aHR0cDovL2JpdC5seS9jYWNtLTIwMTc%3D&_s=b3JjaHBhcms%3D&_c=00416e49>
>    - Paper (full text):
>    https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2017/6/217743-learnable-programming/fulltext
>    <https://milton-web.wnyric.org/canit/urlproxy.php?_q=aHR0cHM6Ly9jYWNtLmFjbS5vcmcvbWFnYXppbmVzLzIwMTcvNi8yMTc3NDMtbGVhcm5hYmxlLXByb2dyYW1taW5nL2Z1bGx0ZXh0&_s=b3JjaHBhcms%3D&_c=48b60518>
>    <https://milton-web.wnyric.org/canit/urlproxy.php?_q=aHR0cDovL2JpdC5seS9jYWNtLTIwMTc%3D&_s=b3JjaHBhcms%3D&_c=00416e49>
>
> Carlos, I have used this article and video to demonstrate to many
> administrators and district leaders that for students who have little or no
> experience (or even very experienced) and are exposed to programming for
> the first time can avoid the typical struggles with and frustration of
> learning syntax of programming languages such as Python or Java.
>
> I have been using Alice for years teaching AP Computer Science Principles
> for many years, and many of the students that are taking this introductory
> computer science course are learning about programming and computer science
> for the first time. Many of the students get engaged because learning to
> program with Alice is fun and allows them to be creative. It engages the
> students and many become interested in continuing to take computer science
> courses such as AP CS A, which for me is the benchmark of success.
>
> The following is anecdotal, but many of the students that first took the
> AP CSP course with Alice have told me that they struggle less and are much
> less frustrated with learning and understanding Java as compared to
> students who are taking AP CS A without first taking the AP CSP course with
> Alice. I also have had discussions with other AP CSP teachers as I also am
> a College Board APSI instructor for AP CSP; those teachers that teach with
> block languages first, such as Mobile CSP with App Inventor, the Beauty and
> Joy of Computing with SNAP!, Code.org App lab, Scratch, Pencilcode.net, and
> other block languages report similar feedback from students that progress
> from AP CS Principles to AP CS A.
>
> I also have some colleagues that first start with block languages, then
> migrate into text based or syntax-based languages such as Python teaching
> AP CSP; Alilce 3 is also an example of being able to go back and forth from
> blocks to syntax in Java, which some of my colleagues also use.
>
> Carlos, I hope that you would be able to use the paper and video to
> explain why it would benefit students with little or no experience in
> programming to first start with block languages; then, as they enjoy the
> creativity and gain confidence in their programming and logic skills,
> introduce them to syntax-based languages; this has been especially true for
> the underserved and underrepresented groups in computer science that I
> teach.
>
> If you have any questions about this, please let me know.
>
> Thanks a lot and wishing you and everyone the best on this thread.
>
> Art Lopez
>
> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 9:55 AM Barnum, William via alice-teachers <
> alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Carlos,
>>
>> I'm actually much better at argument than programming, so this is my kind
>> of question. 😃
>>
>> My guess is your administrator, like most administrators probably doesn't
>> know much about programming.Probably someone convinced him/her that Python
>> is more "real-world."
>>
>> I would encourage you to ask probing questions to understand his/her
>> thought process and engage him/her in a problem-solving exercise.
>>
>> 1. Why Python as opposed to many other languages? What other languages
>> should we consider, and how should we evaluate them?
>> 2. In our introductory class, do you think the language-specific syntax
>> is more important, or would you like us to focus on underlying programming
>> concepts?
>> 3. How important is student engagement in the introductory course?
>> 4. How important are accessibility of curriculum and student diversity in
>> the introductory course?
>> 5. What disadvantages might there be in switching to a Python curriculum
>> for Intro?
>> 6. Are there other places in our course progression where Python might
>> fit fell?
>>
>> I'd recommend doing mainly listening during the first meeting and
>> schedule a follow-up appointment after you've learned his/her preferences
>> and had a chance to do some research.
>>
>> If you'd like to talk off-list, feel free to send me an e-mail.
>>
>> Bill Barnum
>> Computer Science Teacher
>> York Community High School
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 9:07 AM Carlos Bovell <cbovell at nburlington.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Somebody has convinced my administrator that we should really be using
>>> Python in our intro courses. I could use some reasons why Alice makes a
>>> great alternative. Any and all arguments would be welcome!
>>>
>>> Carlos Bovell
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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-- 
Adam Ziccardi
716-209-6482
OPTA president
K-12 CS coordinator
NYS Master Teacher
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