<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Hello Alice forum,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">I'm mostly lurking but this topic hit a listener. The way I teach is OOP first and foremost. Alice does that for us very well. She's been our mainstay for the last decade and we do new things every semester. After a while learning to build worlds and use the controls our Tea Party is set. Then, we go right down the rabbit hole creating new and exciting things for the existing classes and their myriad of instances. Inheritance is natural, extending classes is natural, creativity is natural. Our APCS-A kids are so successful after Alice I couldn't imagine teaching APCS-A without her anymore. The learning references to Enhanced Clever Skaters and Gorilla Robots makes learning APCS-A so nice. Hanoi and skeletons make recursion so nice. public void mystery () motivates about 5% of people. Alice motivates the other 95% too.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Then we go all online with Chromebooks where Alice can't operate.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">The CMU CSAcademy is a fantastic option that motivates, encourages, allows for differentiation, and again, is full of creativity opportunities. We can't go back to yesterday because we were different people then. The Python subset used is great. The support from CMU is second to none. The kids are learning instantiation, property changes, methods, and adding properties in addition to the classic CS stuff controls, conditionals, collections, etc. Lacking is inheritance and extensions. Notably too, though, is the APCS-A's perceptible shift away from this as well. Unit 9 seems cursory to me anyhow, way at the end of the year. 80% of the course is learned inside of: public static void main(String args[]). Don't ask me what that means, just have to do it is a crappy way to present the course curriculum. It works, but...</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">So back to your administrator. I was at a WNY STEM conference filling in last minute for a teacher/speaker. There were about 100 people there for free dinner and updates. I asked how many teachers, how many corporate sponsors, how many administrators each by a show of hands. I had to know the room. The administrators were about 60-70 percent. One of them asked the best way to choose a class/subject/language. I unequivocally stated "you support whatever your CS teacher wants to do. Get them what they ask for and make budgetary decisions. Leave the curriculum to the teacher." I explained none of the buzzwords work for school age introductory students. Attraction and retention for every person we have in our buildings is a good goal. Learn the stuff with your kids, not for them. We're not in the industry, we're in high school or middle school. The language du jour may be Python but it won't be in X years/months/weeks. I had a college prof who said "Adam, you gotta learn APL. C will be dead in two years." So we did a lot of APL for 3 years. Ever heard of APL? We all know what's written in C. But we learned a lot of CS that is transferable.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">I suggest communicating with your Red Queen that the Forums/supports are all there for whatever you want to teach. Student enrollment and interest are at the core of our decision making. It's not about the language and that CS is more about the content and the adventure. Then learning which languages apply to the app situation will have strength and meaning.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Lastly, I do not believe for a second that APCS-P is a precursor to APCS-A. It could be but there is not a linear progression from P to A. Alice is better at APCS-A prep than anything I've seen or done. CSAcademy will be my close second while we are all online. Once we are 100% back FTF, I'll offer both and see where it goes.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Thanks. Curricularly: meet the kids where they are at and stretch them out where they can go. If they don't know where they want to go it doesn't matter much how you get there. We are all mad here...just illuminate a path.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">AZ</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 4:29 PM Art Lopez <<a href="mailto:mr.arturo.lopez@gmail.com">mr.arturo.lopez@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hello Carlos and all,<div><br></div><div>My name is Art Lopez and I serve on the Board of Directors for the Computer Science Teachers Association as the 9 - 12 representative. I am involved with CS for All and advocate for Equity Access and broadening participation of underserved and underrepresented groups (women, diversity or children of color, and other groups) in computer science. I think this is a really great topic of discussion for this list-serve, and appreciate the contributions from everyone on this thread.</div><div><br></div><div>Dr. Jeff Gray of the University of Alabama and his colleagues, including co-author Caitlin Kelleher, had written a paper in Communications of the ACM ( Association of Computing Machinery) about the benefits and opportunities for using block languages for teaching students about programming and computer science; there is also a video provided by co-author Caitlin Kelleher.</div><div><ul><li>Video: <a href="https://milton-web.wnyric.org/canit/urlproxy.php?_q=aHR0cDovL2JpdC5seS9jYWNtLTIwMTc%3D&_s=b3JjaHBhcms%3D&_c=00416e49" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/cacm-2017</a></li><li>Paper (full text): <a href="https://milton-web.wnyric.org/canit/urlproxy.php?_q=aHR0cHM6Ly9jYWNtLmFjbS5vcmcvbWFnYXppbmVzLzIwMTcvNi8yMTc3NDMtbGVhcm5hYmxlLXByb2dyYW1taW5nL2Z1bGx0ZXh0&_s=b3JjaHBhcms%3D&_c=48b60518" target="_blank">https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2017/6/217743-learnable-programming/fulltext</a><a href="https://milton-web.wnyric.org/canit/urlproxy.php?_q=aHR0cDovL2JpdC5seS9jYWNtLTIwMTc%3D&_s=b3JjaHBhcms%3D&_c=00416e49" target="_blank"></a></li></ul><div>Carlos, I have used this article and video to demonstrate to many administrators and district leaders that for students who have little or no experience (or even very experienced) and are exposed to programming for the first time can avoid the typical struggles with and frustration of learning syntax of programming languages such as Python or Java.</div><div><br></div><div>I have been using Alice for years teaching AP Computer Science Principles for many years, and many of the students that are taking this introductory computer science course are learning about programming and computer science for the first time. Many of the students get engaged because learning to program with Alice is fun and allows them to be creative. It engages the students and many become interested in continuing to take computer science courses such as AP CS A, which for me is the benchmark of success.</div><div><br></div><div>The following is anecdotal, but many of the students that first took the AP CSP course with Alice have told me that they struggle less and are much less frustrated with learning and understanding Java as compared to students who are taking AP CS A without first taking the AP CSP course with Alice. I also have had discussions with other AP CSP teachers as I also am a College Board APSI instructor for AP CSP; those teachers that teach with block languages first, such as Mobile CSP with App Inventor, the Beauty and Joy of Computing with SNAP!, Code.org App lab, Scratch, Pencilcode.net, and other block languages report similar feedback from students that progress from AP CS Principles to AP CS A.</div><div><br></div><div>I also have some colleagues that first start with block languages, then migrate into text based or syntax-based languages such as Python teaching AP CSP; Alilce 3 is also an example of being able to go back and forth from blocks to syntax in Java, which some of my colleagues also use.</div><div><br></div><div>Carlos, I hope that you would be able to use the paper and video to explain why it would benefit students with little or no experience in programming to first start with block languages; then, as they enjoy the creativity and gain confidence in their programming and logic skills, introduce them to syntax-based languages; this has been especially true for the underserved and underrepresented groups in computer science that I teach.</div><div><br></div><div>If you have any questions about this, please let me know.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks a lot and wishing you and everyone the best on this thread.</div><div><br></div><div>Art Lopez</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 9:55 AM Barnum, William via alice-teachers <<a href="mailto:alice-teachers@lists.andrew.cmu.edu" target="_blank">alice-teachers@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Carlos,<div><br></div><div>I'm actually much better at argument than programming, so this is my kind of question. 😃<br><div><br></div><div>My guess is your administrator, like most
administrators probably doesn't know much about programming.Probably someone convinced him/her that Python is more "real-world."</div><div><br></div><div>I would encourage you to ask probing questions to understand his/her thought process and engage him/her in a problem-solving exercise.</div><div><br></div><div>1. Why Python as opposed to many other languages? What other languages should we consider, and how should we evaluate them?</div><div>2. In our introductory class, do you think the language-specific syntax is more important, or would you like us to focus on underlying programming concepts?</div><div>3. How important is student engagement in the introductory course?</div><div>4. How important are accessibility of curriculum and student diversity in the introductory course?</div><div>5. What disadvantages might there be in switching to a Python curriculum for Intro?</div><div>6. Are there other places in our course progression where Python might fit fell?</div><div><br></div><div>I'd recommend doing mainly listening during the first meeting and schedule a follow-up appointment after you've learned his/her preferences and had a chance to do some research.</div></div><div><br></div><div>If you'd like to talk off-list, feel free to send me an e-mail.</div><div><br></div><div>Bill Barnum</div><div>Computer Science Teacher</div><div>York Community High School</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 9:07 AM Carlos Bovell <<a href="mailto:cbovell@nburlington.com" target="_blank">cbovell@nburlington.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Somebody has convinced my administrator that we should really be using Python in our intro courses. I could use some reasons why Alice makes a great alternative. Any and all arguments would be welcome!</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Carlos Bovell</div>
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