[SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands

Sat Nov 16 00:54:48 EST 2019

Your Excellency,

It is well to recognize that one's intent does not always match one's
effect. Thank you for publicly acknowledging this, and for clearing the
record with respect to Their Excellencies' character and reputation.

It is also true that the original message could have seemed like an order,
being as it was, a declaration rather than a petition.

The central problem with your initial objection, however, still stands.
Regardless of whether you thought the populace had been given ample
opportunity to provide input and counsel, in this matter, no counsel is or
ever has been required. A motto cannot be a matter of policy. There are no
"proper channels" such as you suggest. Actually, that's incorrect! The
"proper channel" is for the Baroness and Baron, upon seeing a potentiality
for the betterment of Baronial morale or cohesion or strength or general
spiffyness, to issue the sort of decree that creates those impressions of
and fosters esprit de corps among Their populace, such as: Hey, let's all
use "Hi, Neighbors" as our motto...only in Latin, so it sounds cool!

I will repeat what I said in my first email on this subject, and let me be
crystal clear: They are in no way obligated to consult or to involve the
populace in such a decision. It is not and CANNOT be a policy matter. As
such, your intent, even as you express it, was misguided from the start.
Having had it pointed out to you that it is NOT a policy decision, and that
you were incorrect in that assessment, you still persisted in "raising a
ruckus." Indeed, even after the Baroness graciously acceeded to your
suggestions - as she has continuously done throughout this evening - you
continued to complain.

You are welcome to complain about the content or sentiment of the motto
chosen, or to choose not to intone it. But you erred in continuing to
complain about the process.

It is the prerogative of the Baronage to introduce pomp, ceremony, and
pageantry to the game we play. Their method of doing so is not up to us to
determine. We, as subjects of the Baronage, owe our Baronial seat the
courtesy and respect of following their leadership.

One more thing: when I said you are welcome to complain...that's not quite
true. You are of course welcome to any opinion on the actions,
undertakings, and initiatives that the Baronage may propose. But! As Peers,
it is further incumbent upon us to render any such complaints as we might
have, baseless or otherwise, privately and politely, with as much courtesy
as possible, and in the conviction that no one, least of all someone in a
leadership position elected by the populace, should be presumed to have
improper intent. Once those objections have been lodged, it is then proper
for us to keep them to ourselves, and outwardly support our regional heads.
This is their due as appointed representatives of the Crown. The SCA is not
a democracy in matters such as these. That is the "game" we agree to play
and the rules we, as Peers, are meant to uphold.

Now. I'm gonna go watch the Mandalorian. I will see you all in the next
beautiful day in our neighborhood.

Ever in Service,

Gwen

On Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 12:03 AM Shawn MacIntyre <medicmacintyre at gmail.com>
wrote:

>  As was conveyed to Hilda and Bradubh via private email: It was not my
> intent to make you or Brandubh look like horrible people for not seeking
> further input beyond the August meeting. The way I read your announcement
> seemed that an idea was being thrust upon without the populace having
> input. My intent was simply to give others opinions and a chance to submit
> ideas. The way I read your original post, I read it as you were making this
> policy and felt that proper channels should be gone through.
>
> That is all, I wasn't raising a ruckus just to do so, my allegiance is
> with the populace, as it was when I served the populace.
>
> In service,
> Liam
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:45 PM Krista Cogan <krista.cogan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Master Liam, I am very sorry to have offended you and any others that may
>> feel the same. Your wife, Her Excellency Constance, pointed out to me on
>> Facebook that my post was not crystal clear that such things are optional.
>> In re-reading my blog post from a different point of view, I could
>> absolutely see her point, particularly as regards newer people who aren't
>> as familiar with the ins and outs of SCA workings. I attempted to correct
>> that both here on the email list and Facebook. You then suggested it should
>> have been put before the populace more publicly that a discussion at a
>> Business meeting (August). That had not been suggested previously to me
>> that I can recall, and I hadn't thought of it, but it's a good idea. I
>> moved to do just that, tonight.
>>
>> Since we are doing this publicly, I would say a personal tenet of mine
>> publicly: that when someone tells you they are hurt. we do not get to
>> decide that they were not hurt. I apologize for hurting you, and others who
>> share your thoughts. If there's anything further I can do to rectify,
>> beyond taking your and Her Excellency Constance's suggestions, please do
>> let me know.
>>
>> I thank all who have posted some clarifications here on the deeper
>> aspects of how we work. They are very much appreciated.
>>
>> And remember - Mottos are fun! Let's make some fun!
>>
>> ~Hilda
>>
>> “Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our
>> neighbors.” -Fred Rogers
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:16 PM Shawn MacIntyre <
>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Personally, I find it discourteous to not bring the idea to the full
>>> populace prior to making an announcement. The idea of not allowing the
>>> populace to have input prior to making an announcement goes against the
>>> proposed motto itself.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:09 PM Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl <
>>> sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greetings from Myfanwy!
>>>> I’m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn.
>>>> Remember — the SCA does not register full achievements of arms,
>>>> mottoes, and the like.  I’m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a
>>>> motto and letting it be up to the populace to use it or not.  For anyone to
>>>> suggest otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that
>>>> the SCA strives for as an ideal.
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace <gwenlygrace at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>
>>>> I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy
>>>> decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in
>>>> terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was
>>>> imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind.
>>>>
>>>> As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted
>>>> or asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and
>>>> incorrect "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it
>>>> was the task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in
>>>> fact force a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope,
>>>> not doing that."
>>>>
>>>> Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's
>>>> not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the
>>>> same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness.
>>>>
>>>> I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote,
>>>> but I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good
>>>> intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this
>>>> appears to be a violation of policy.
>>>>
>>>> Ever in service,
>>>>
>>>> Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre <
>>>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without
>>>>> discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without
>>>>> discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned
>>>>> the announcement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B,
>>>>>
>>>>>   B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers.
>>>>> Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the
>>>>> agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this
>>>>> circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be
>>>>> announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours
>>>>> before the meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan <krista.cogan at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I
>>>>>> would have thought of it myself! Thank you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~Bns. Hilda
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre <
>>>>>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I
>>>>>>> have an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and
>>>>>>> chosen by the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the
>>>>>>> business meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea
>>>>>>> would be to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a
>>>>>>> contest to choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on
>>>>>>> behalf of the populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side"
>>>>>>> to the SCA, a motto is something that the populace as a whole should
>>>>>>> decide. While you point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it
>>>>>>> lacks the input of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael
>>>>>>> and Thescorre's motto have meaning to the populace because they represent
>>>>>>> something special that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more
>>>>>>> like making a campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it,
>>>>>>> without a reason to stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maighstir Liam
>>>>>>> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM Stórfréttir Updates <
>>>>>>> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is new Baronial News at the Stórfréttir!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands
>>>>>>>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below
>>>>>>>> to see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this,
>>>>>>>> the eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and
>>>>>>>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE
>>>>>>>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World
>>>>>>>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and
>>>>>>>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers.
>>>>>>>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people
>>>>>>>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open
>>>>>>>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and
>>>>>>>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" -
>>>>>>>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and
>>>>>>>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE
>>>>>>>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also,
>>>>>>>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at
>>>>>>>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and
>>>>>>>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins:
>>>>>>>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To see or comment on this post on the Stórfréttir, click here:
>>>>>>>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list
>>>>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
>>>>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Shawn MacIntyre
>>>>>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list
>>>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
>>>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list
>>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
>>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Shawn MacIntyre
>>>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list
>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list
>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon
>>>> Ruth Morrisson
>>>> MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list
>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shawn MacIntyre
>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list
>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sca-bmdl mailing list
>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
>>
>
>
> --
> Shawn MacIntyre
> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-bmdl mailing list
> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/sca-bmdl/attachments/20191116/e23c0c8b/attachment-0001.html>