[SCA-BMDL] BMDL Patterns

Wed Jun 18 12:43:13 EDT 2008

My understanding is what Hrefna said.  

The Laurel Wreath implies that you ARE the arms depicted (eg that you are the baron/baroness/King/Queen, etc.) or that here is where you can find the barony/kingdom, etc. (as in a field banner or camp banner on the baronial encampment).  
When you take a position such as Baron, Baroness, Prince, Princess, King, Queen, you stop using your personal arms and take on the arms of the location that you now represent.  Once you step down, you revert to your personal arms.  Just as one would not paint the kingdom arms on their shield or put it on their garb unless they were on the throne, baronial arms (with Laurel wreath) are reserved for the sitting baron and baroness and the barony itself as an entity (not the individuals in it). Just think "L'etat c'est moi" in this case ("I am the state").  Remember that in period, landed nobility were often referred to as the name of the land they were in charge of (such as "Exeter" or "Northumberland" -- see Henry V).  

Populace badges, such as the plain comet (no wreath) as Hrefna described or the white escarbuncle at the kingdom level, are free to be used by anyone who wants to identify themselves as part of that group.  So by wearing a badge or putting it on your clothes you are saying "I belong to this place".  It's like painting your face with the team colors for the game (except WAY cooler in my opinion).

So the right thing to do if a person is interested in identifying with the barony by putting a symbol on his or her clothing is to use the populace badge (no wreath), not the full baronial arms (yes wreath).  One might also make a banner with the populace badge (no wreath) to say "we belong to this place".  That could go in thier personal camp or they could carry it with them to march with the barony etc. and it would remain their personal property.

If you want to identify the barony (as one does with a banner), use the full arms (yes wreath).  Keep in mind that that banner, once given to the baron and baroness, then becomes property of the barony and will pass to the next baron and baroness as baronial regalia (ie stuff that the barony owns).  

Does that help?

Morgen,
Princess of Æthelmearc

-----Original Message-----
From: Pam Bolkovac <pmb_pa at yahoo.com>
To: BMDL SCA <sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu>
Sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:16 pm
Subject: Re: [SCA-BMDL] BMDL Patterns

I replied off list asking for more info, so I know
hich pattern to give her.  But I have a question
egarding what can be put on garb for members of the
arony.  Should it include the wreath or not?  My gut
ays it shouldn't.  This drives what the available
atterns are (I have at least 10 versions of this in
arious sizes, shapes, etc.)
Cassandra
-- myfanwy at nauticom.net wrote:
> Greetings from Myfanwy!
 Hrefna's correct about the arms vs. the populace
 badge.  However, it isn't
 clear whether Elss needs to know what stuff looks
 like, or have an actual
 chart/design to work from.
 I know that Cassandra charted the comet part awhile
 back to do order
 badges in cross stitch.  I'm not sure where mine is
 at the moment, but I'm
 pretty sure that Cassandra or someone will have a
 copy and can get you
 one.
 Lady Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon
 Ruth Morrisson
 myfanwy at nauticom.net

 > Hi Elss,
 >
 > If the banner is for your own personal use, you
 want to use what is called
 > the populace badge,  which is a white comet with
 its head on your left
 > inside of a yellow block border on a black
 background.  In heraldic
 > speech, the badge is "Sable, a comet fesswise
 argent, a bordure embattled
 > Or."
 >
 > If you are making the banner for the barony to use
 or for the baron or
 > baroness, then you want to use the group's arms. 
 There is a picture in
 > the upper left corner of this web page:
 http://debatablelands.org/.
 >
 > Visiually, the difference between the two is the
 laurel wreath but the
 > meaning is much more. The badge says "I belong to
 or am a member of the
 > Barony-Marche".  The arms declare "I am the
 Barony-Marche" or "I am the
 > baroness\baron of the Debatable Lands."
 >
 > Your banner can be any shape: round, square,
 rectangular, or heater (i.e.
 > shield shaped.)  Just make the border fit the
 shape of the banner.
 >
 > Raven
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >

---------------------------------------------------------
 > And this above all to thine own self be true.
 >                                 - Shakespeare,
 "Hamlet"
 >
 >
 > --- On Wed, 6/18/08, Elss_of_Augsburg
 <elss_of_augsburg at yahoo.com> wrote:
 >
 >> From: Elss_of_Augsburg
 <elss_of_augsburg at yahoo.com>
 >> Subject: [SCA-BMDL] BMDL Patterns
 >> To: "BMDL SCA" <sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu>
 >> Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 9:14 AM
 >> Greetings!
 >>  
 >> Does any good gentile out there have a pattern
 for the BMDL
 >> device (banner / logo / whatchamacallit)? I am
 looking for
 >> needlepoint or embroidery so I can add to my
 garb, and I am
 >> also looking for something large so I can make a
 banner.
 >>  
 >> I would also be very glad of any advice or
 assistance from
 >> anyone with experience in these endeavors, so
 that I use
 >> durable materials and colors that don't fade, and
 >> don't make more work for myself than necessary.
 >>  
 >> My thanks to all in advance --
 >>  
 >> Elss of
 >>

ugsburg_______________________________________________
 >> Sca-bmdl mailing list
 >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
 >>

ttps://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
 >
 >
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Sca-bmdl mailing list
 > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
 >

ttps://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl
 >

 _______________________________________________
 Sca-bmdl mailing list
 Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu

ttps://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl

_______________________________________________
ca-bmdl mailing list
ca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu
ttps://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/pipermail/sca-bmdl/attachments/20080618/dfa7387a/attachment-0001.html 