[SCA-Dance] Misc. questions from KWDS

Aaron Macks upelluri at gmail.com
Mon Apr 27 16:32:40 EDT 2015

I believe you're incorrect.  Sparti talks about starting her project as
a translation/annotation of the NYPL manuscript after the death of the
donor, but then changes to translate what she believes is the source MS,
which is also the only one with a dedication and music, BnF Ital. 973


On 4/26/15 11:04 PM, Mary Railing wrote:
>     The "New York Public Library version" is the one used by Barbara Sparti for her translation of Guglielmo's treatise. Her translation is worth looking up as an alternative to Smith. It also includes introductory chapters on the background of the treatise, Guglielmo's life, the context of the dances in renaissance Italy, and the musical notation. It is in print, but very expensive. It should be available in academic libraries. 
>      De Pratica Seu Arte Tripudi: "On the Practice or Are of Dancing" , Guglielmo Ebreo of Pesaro (Author), Barbara Sparti (Translator)
>      The description of the piva as "a double that is altered and accelerated by the music that stimulates the dancer to it" comes from Cornazano, not Guglielmo. Guglielmo says almost nothing about the steps as such. He discusses piva, saltarello, quadernaria and bassadanza extensively as musical tempi, but for all you can tell from his writing they might all just be doubles done at different speeds with different effects. 
>      Amoroso is in piva. Sparti transcribed the music "for easier reading only" in 2/4.
>      I'm not so sure about the "leading" thing. I seem to recall references to the lady leading the repeat of the dance, using the verb "guider", which doesn't necessarily mean leading in the sense of "preceding". However, after skimming through various dances, I haven't found an example of this. Now I'm wondering if our practice of repeating the dance with the lady leading is the exception rather than the rule with these dances.
>      As for pictures showing two people in file or side by side, I have examples of both, but the list won't allow attached pictures. We normally hold hands in a dance with the man's right hand under the lady's left hand. However, many period pictures show the man's hand over the lady's, the way couples today hold hands when walking down the street. This position allows the man to be either right beside the lady or to pull her along slightly behind him.
> --Urraca Yriarte de Gamboa
> P.S. SCA-Dance usually bounces my posts. If this message doesn't appear on that list, would you do me the favor of posting it there?
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 4/26/15, tmcd at panix.com <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:
>  Subject: [SCA-Dance]  Misc. questions from KWDS
>  To: "SCA Dance" <sca-dance at sca-dance.org>
>  Date: Sunday, April 26, 2015, 2:40 AM
>  I have some questions from KWDS, and
>  realized I could ask the list.
>  (And thereby ask Perronnelle, whom I was originally going to
>  bother.)
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Countess Judith de Northumbria (Rachel Lorenz)
>  Reconsidering the lilly: Gelosia, Amoroso and Belfiore
>  She cited Smith, A. William, _15th Century Dance and Music_,
>  as the
>  source for the Amoroso version she taught.  She called
>  that version
>  the "New York Public Library" version.  Is there any
>  more information
>  on that particular source, or is it just a weird catalog
>  number?
>  I'm idly curious about this bit.
>  As best I wrote it, the manuscript says that the piva is "a
>  double
>  that is altered and accelerated by the music that stimulates
>  the
>  dancer to it".  Is this the only definition of piva, or
>  are there
>  similar ones from other sources?
>  Is Amoroso's tempo quaternaria?
>  Do I remember right, that she said that the manuals talk
>  about one
>  person "leading", and there are pictures of people
>  approximately in
>  file?  Is side-by-side also attested in pictures?
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Aaron Macks(aaronm at wiglaf.org) [http://www.wiglaf.org/~aaronm ]
My sheep has seven gall bladders, that makes me the King of the Universe!

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