[SCA-Dance] Misc. questions from KWDS

Tim McDaniel tmcd at panix.com
Sun Apr 26 23:29:58 EDT 2015

I can't tell whether this had gone to the SCA-Dance list, so I'll echo
it here.


Mary Railing wrote:

    The "New York Public Library version" is the one used by Barbara Sparti for her translation of Guglielmo's treatise. Her translation is worth looking up as an alternative to Smith. It also includes introductory chapters on the background of the treatise, Guglielmo's life, the context of the dances in renaissance Italy, and the musical notation. It is in print, but very expensive. It should be available in academic libraries.
     De Pratica Seu Arte Tripudi: "On the Practice or Are of Dancing" , Guglielmo Ebreo of Pesaro (Author), Barbara Sparti (Translator)

     The description of the piva as "a double that is altered and accelerated by the music that stimulates the dancer to it" comes from Cornazano, not Guglielmo. Guglielmo says almost nothing about the steps as such. He discusses piva, saltarello, quadernaria and bassadanza extensively as musical tempi, but for all you can tell from his writing they might all just be doubles done at different speeds with different effects.

     Amoroso is in piva. Sparti transcribed the music "for easier reading only" in 2/4.

     I'm not so sure about the "leading" thing. I seem to recall references to the lady leading the repeat of the dance, using the verb "guider", which doesn't necessarily mean leading in the sense of "preceding". However, after skimming through various dances, I haven't found an example of this. Now I'm wondering if our practice of repeating the dance with the lady leading is the exception rather than the rule with these dances.
     As for pictures showing two people in file or side by side, I have examples of both, but the list won't allow attached pictures. We normally hold hands in a dance with the man's right hand under the lady's left hand. However, many period pictures show the man's hand over the lady's, the way couples today hold hands when walking down the street. This position allows the man to be either right beside the lady or to pull her along slightly behind him.

--Urraca Yriarte de Gamboa

P.S. SCA-Dance usually bounces my posts. If this message doesn't appear on that list, would you do me the favor of posting it there?
On Sun, 4/26/15, tmcd at panix.com <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:

Subject: [SCA-Dance]  Misc. questions from KWDS
To: "SCA Dance" <sca-dance at sca-dance.org>
Date: Sunday, April 26, 2015, 2:40 AM

I have some questions from KWDS, and
realized I could ask the list.
(And thereby ask Perronnelle, whom I was originally going to


Countess Judith de Northumbria (Rachel Lorenz)
Reconsidering the lilly: Gelosia, Amoroso and Belfiore

She cited Smith, A. William, _15th Century Dance and Music_,
as the
source for the Amoroso version she taught.  She called
that version
the "New York Public Library" version.  Is there any
more information
on that particular source, or is it just a weird catalog
I'm idly curious about this bit.

As best I wrote it, the manuscript says that the piva is "a
that is altered and accelerated by the music that stimulates
dancer to it".  Is this the only definition of piva, or
are there
similar ones from other sources?

Is Amoroso's tempo quaternaria?

Do I remember right, that she said that the manuals talk
about one
person "leading", and there are pictures of people
approximately in
file?  Is side-by-side also attested in pictures?


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