[SCA-Dance] Sca-dance Digest, Vol 55, Issue 1

Niki janeeve2001 at yahoo.com
Sun May 2 14:36:19 EDT 2010

Responded to off list.



Hello Lady Jane/NIcole, et al,

Nicole, where are you learning your Baroque dance & music?  The  
nearest class to me is at Goucher College, and it's a mixed historic  
dance group iirc, and you'd have to attend the university to dance  
with them.  And it's an hour away.  If you know of a group between  
Baltimore and DC I'd love to hear about it.  Cheryl developed other  
interests so no more Court Dancers.

OK, the bustle thing makes sense now.  Cunnington is a bit out dated  
for period references, her work being originally published in 1951, so  
that accounts for her using the term "bustle" where we would use  
another term now.  Nicole Kipar and I have been correspondents in the  
past, and I would trust her research.  At one point she was pretty  
much cutting edge for reenactors of her period in Europe (as one  
person put it, back when most people thought you were talking about a  
barking dog when someone mentioned Waugh*g*).  She has high standards  
and she has a good website.  When she put up the pages with members of  
L'Age D'Or inserted into period art work, it was truly impressive!  I  
haven't checked to see if they are still up, they might have been on  
another list serve when we had a discussion group.  It's been a while.

I agree about the info from Keller, although her work does seem to be  
inconsistent.  She makes a good argument in one of her works for  
correct technique, though in others she's presenting dance instruction  
that's more modern in sensibility.  And unlike some publications,  
she's readily accessible to the general public.  Not my favorite, but  
then, most folks don't like the more complicated work.

I would love to talk to you more about this off list.


On Apr 30, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Niki wrote:

> Hello Genevieve:
> I'm learning Baroque & Colonial Dance/Music outside of the SCA.  
> There are groups all over the world (for Baroque) who teach it.  If  
> anyone is interested, I can help you find a group close to you.
> Citing references:
> Bustle:
> Willett. C & Cunnington, Phillis (1992) "The Historiy of  
> Underclothes". Dover Publications, Inc. New York.
> "About 1690, with the overskirt becomming bunched up at the back, it  
> was natural that the bustle should return - at least for a brief  
> spell (Mrs. Centlivre mentioned 'rump furbelows', meaning this type  
> of bustle in the Platonic Lady 1707) - only to be replaced early in  
> the eighteenth century by the hooped petticoat."
> This is supported by: Nicole Kipar's website, which uses different  
> words, but is the same idea: http://www.kipar.org/baroque-costumes/costumes_female.html
> "The upper skirt, the robe or manteau, was slit in the front and  
> draped back, in the 1670s this drapery was still held gracefully  
> with one arm or by a young page, soon to be fastened with jewelled  
> dress fasteners. The manteau, which was draped on the hips, was  
> supported by artificial round shapes at the back of the wearer, the  
> so-calledbouffantes, while the waist was extremely small, and all  
> the fabric of the under skirt, the jupe or petticoat and the  
> overskirt being gathered. Thus the female figure seemed, despite the  
> masses of fabric being used, to be more bared than actually covered."
> This is shown by the gathering in the back of several works of art,  
> at the link I provided earlier.
> In regards to Kate Keller, while I have read some of her works, and  
> appreciate the reprints of General George Bush's diary which shows  
> music and dances done by the Continental Army (Rev War), I very  
> rarely use her as a source.  So, if you are going to think of myself  
> and Keller, err on the side of not using the information for  
> anything other than basic 18th Century dance information.
> Nicole
> (Since this information would have been around long after my  
> personae would have passed on)
> ****************************
> And could you please cite your references to the part with the  
> clothing descriptions that are not from the websites?  I am having  
> difficulty in accepting the description of a "bustle", since the  
> form of hip padding used in that time period is of a different shape  
> and construction.  The actual description of the shape leads me to  
> think that what is meant should actually be referred to as a bum  
> roll.  As I only have a facsimile edition of the 1651 version, I  
> can't compare notes with the Keller publication.  If it's out of  
> that, Keller is not a period clothing expert, so he may just not  
> understand the proper terminology and not have considered such a  
> detail important.  But it is if you want to know how to do the dance  
> and understand things like spacing and timing (and that includes the  
> music, which is usually played too fast for dancing in the clothes).
> Sorry if this has turned out a bit long, but I love baroque dance  
> technique and really miss practicing it.  ECD as done by most  
> historically minded folks doesn't usually extend so far.  And I  
> really like the clothes ;-)
> Lady Genevieve D'Aubigne


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