From admin at debatablelands.org Fri Nov 1 23:05:49 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 20:05:49 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Fight Practice at the Harvest Revel Message-ID: <201911020305.xA235na3016682@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sun Nov 3 00:48:22 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 21:48:22 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Fencing at Harvest Revel This Week 11/3 Message-ID: <201911030448.xA34mMQM010008@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sun Nov 3 10:00:14 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 08:00:14 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Harvest Revel - TODAY!! Message-ID: <201911031500.xA3F0EKm011659@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Tue Nov 5 09:43:10 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 07:43:10 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Sewing Circle - Thurs Nov 7th Message-ID: <201911051443.xA5EhAwC009756@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ishiyama at ee0r.com Wed Nov 6 13:27:08 2019 From: ishiyama at ee0r.com (Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 13:27:08 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Silent Auction, ISO winning bidder Message-ID: <6fdc78de-b099-0f73-c85c-747c6b272343@ee0r.com> Generous Barony, Would the winning bidder for the wooden box please contact me? Your donation to the barony is appreciated, and I'd like to see you receive your item. I am not on Facebook, so you will need to send me email or call me on the phone (number in Dark Pages). -- Ishiyama Shonagon (mka: Elliott C. Evans) ishiyama at ee0r.com http://www.ee0r.com/sca/ishiyama.html From admin at debatablelands.org Wed Nov 6 14:27:12 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 12:27:12 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Call for Letters - Seneschal Message-ID: <201911061927.xA6JRCA5022046@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Thu Nov 7 09:54:24 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 07:54:24 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Reminder - Sewing Circle Tonight 7:30 Message-ID: <201911071454.xA7EsOlV028650@p3nlhg630.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Fri Nov 8 20:52:27 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 18:52:27 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Fight Practice November 10 Message-ID: <201911090152.xA91qRNH002382@p3nlhg627.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Fri Nov 8 22:43:00 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 20:43:00 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Fencing at Broken Plow this Sunday 11/10 Message-ID: <201911090343.xA93h0TM013725@p3nlhg627.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sat Nov 9 09:39:02 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 07:39:02 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Sunday Site Clean Up Message-ID: <201911091439.xA9Ed22i021045@p3nlhg627.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sat Nov 9 17:30:35 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 15:30:35 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Youth Practice Message-ID: <201911092230.xA9MUZ2g006897@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krista.cogan at gmail.com Sat Nov 9 18:38:20 2019 From: krista.cogan at gmail.com (Krista Cogan) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 18:38:20 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Sad Tidings: Lord Albrecht Lowe Message-ID: Hello Debatable Lands, We bring sad tidings today. Lord Albrecht Lowe has passed away after a short illness and a long, happy life. Lord Albrecht is the father of Mistress Ts'vee'a, and spent many years facilitating her SCA activity, teaching us all his beloved Shakespeare, and opening his home to our baronial choir. On a more personal note, we knew him as a lovely, kind, intelligent, and erudite man, who was quick to share his words and gifts. We were lucky to have known him. He was a rare gem of a man, and we will miss him. For those interested, funeral arrangements for Alan Z. Lefkowitz are as follows: Sunday, November 10 11 am Interment at Westview Cemetery 1 pm Memorial Service at Rodef Shalom Temple Shiva will be held Monday and Tuesday nights at 6:30pm at Rodef Shalom. Mistress Ts'vee'a thanks you for your generous thoughts and prayers. In Caritate, Baron Brandubh et Baroness Hilda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sun Nov 10 19:20:33 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 17:20:33 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Clean Up Success and thank yous Message-ID: <201911110020.xAB0KXhr004884@p3nlhg630.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sun Nov 10 22:39:09 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 20:39:09 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Woodworking in November Message-ID: <201911110339.xAB3d9jp018112@p3nlhg627.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Mon Nov 11 13:21:23 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:21:23 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] BMDL Equestrian Champs Message-ID: <201911111821.xABILN6K018068@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Mon Nov 11 16:29:16 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 14:29:16 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Seneschal's Spotlight: Business Meetings Message-ID: <201911112129.xABLTGoW028789@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Tue Nov 12 19:36:48 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 17:36:48 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Updated Schedule for Equestrian Practice/Champs Message-ID: <201911130036.xAD0amuW015107@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Wed Nov 13 17:11:28 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 15:11:28 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] SUNDAY! FOOD GUILD MEETING!! Message-ID: <201911132211.xADMBSOj025492@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Wed Nov 13 17:11:29 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 15:11:29 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] SUNDAY! FOOD GUILD MEETING!! Message-ID: <201911132211.xADMBTdp025594@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Wed Nov 13 17:45:57 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 15:45:57 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Youth fighting Message-ID: <201911132245.xADMjvRb017868@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ishiyama at ee0r.com Fri Nov 15 09:18:29 2019 From: ishiyama at ee0r.com (Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 09:18:29 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Garb for equestrian practice Message-ID: <16e6f6dfb08.27a0.1c31da19df7d2ea6d19b030d4825401e@ee0r.com> As this is not an event, but an "enhanced practice with tournaments" , is it "garb requested", "garb optional" , or "no garb" ? -- Ishiyama Shonagon (Elliott C. Evans) http://www.ee0r.com/sca/ishiyama.html ishiyama at ee0r.com From jenn.strobel at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 09:51:10 2019 From: jenn.strobel at gmail.com (Jenn Strobel) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 09:51:10 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Garb for equestrian practice In-Reply-To: <16e6f6dfb08.27a0.1c31da19df7d2ea6d19b030d4825401e@ee0r.com> References: <16e6f6dfb08.27a0.1c31da19df7d2ea6d19b030d4825401e@ee0r.com> Message-ID: As this is an enhanced practice there is no medieval clothing required so "garb optional" keeping in mind that this is entirely outdoors and may be muddy. Odriana *Aude aliquid dignum* On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 9:20 AM Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie < ishiyama at ee0r.com> wrote: > As this is not an event, but an "enhanced practice with tournaments" , is > it "garb requested", "garb optional" , or "no garb" ? > > -- > Ishiyama Shonagon (Elliott C. Evans) > http://www.ee0r.com/sca/ishiyama.html > ishiyama at ee0r.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Fri Nov 15 16:33:36 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 14:33:36 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands Message-ID: <201911152133.xAFLXa5k023600@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Fri Nov 15 16:33:38 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 14:33:38 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands Message-ID: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Fri Nov 15 21:44:58 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 19:44:58 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Fight Practice November 17 Message-ID: <201911160244.xAG2iwXw031986@p3nlhg630.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krista.cogan at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 21:51:19 2019 From: krista.cogan at gmail.com (Krista Cogan) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 21:51:19 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: <201911152133.xAFLXa5k023600@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> References: <201911152133.xAFLXa5k023600@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hello Debatable Lands! Salve Accolens! After receiving a couple questions, I think there's a need for some clarification here (and thanks to Baroness Constance for providing the key point over on Facebook): First, pronunciation: SAL-vay ACK-oh-lenz Second (tl;dr for below): Mottoes aren't official in the SCA, and totally super optional to use. Also, mottoes are fun, and our Barony is amazing! Longer explanation: The SCA has a game side and a business side to it. There's some stuff that's purely business side (policies, money stuff, etc), some stuff that's purely game side (retainers, tokens for new folks, garb, etc), and a lot of stuff that has elements of both (martial practices, Court, social media, etc). Mottoes are purely game side, and won't ever be "official" per se. Using it is entirely optional, as the gentle likes. For some history, I've been enamored of the idea since one of our lovely former Baronesses, Countess Sir Ariella, when she was on the Baronial throne, brought up their desire in a Business meeting to have a Baronial motto. That didn't pan out, but it was a fun idea. Other Baronies have taglines ("Bob Reef!", "Hael Yeah!"), or a motto/moniker ("The Barony that Rocks", "The Industrious Barony"), and it seems to bring their populace together under their core values. People love using those there, and it always brings a smile to faces, even outside of their populaces. Since "The Best and Most Vibrant Barony in the Knowne World" probably isn't the nicest tag line to actually use (even if it is true ;) ) we wanted to have something people liked and really shows the world who we are as a Barony. The Baronial folks who joined us at opening ceremonies at Pennsic this year had a grand time calling out "hello neighbor!" to our Pennsic neighbors as they marched the opening ceremonies field - we'd bonded over mutual mud management! And we thought, you know, that's who we are. Accepting, loving, ready to help and support each other, joyful, open hearts and open minds. People who really, REALLY value each other. I know Mr. Rogers is a modern celebrity, but we are a Pittsburgh Barony, after all, and he embodies that generous, shirt-off-your-back Pittsbugh/BMDL spirit so well. The Latin? well... we thought the English was a bit too modern, and our Barony also values the medieval research part of things quite highly. [Side note: if the Latin is wrong, please let us know! Quality Latin is a beautiful thing] I ran the idea past the Baronial members that attended a Business meeting (and I think I recall talking about it at another), and it was very well received, with no objections and engendering some mirth and some great ideas - there's a lot of fun to be had with this! As with anything game side, using it is a personal preference. I'll be using it as a shorthand to celebrate everything that the Barony-Marche of the Debatable Lands, as a whole, is: helpful, kind, supportive, welcoming, fun, and loving. Thanks for reading! Salve Accolens! ~Bns. Hilda On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: > There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! > > Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands > Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman > > Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to see > a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the eve > of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and > schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE > ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World > Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and > courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. > The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people > will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open > hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and > welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - > "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and > hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE > ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, > it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at > Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and > Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: > listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers > > ----- > > To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: > http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From medicmacintyre at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 21:53:39 2019 From: medicmacintyre at gmail.com (Shawn MacIntyre) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 21:53:39 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> Message-ID: While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. Maighstir Liam 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: > There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! > > Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands > Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman > > Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to see > a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the eve > of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and > schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE > ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World > Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and > courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. > The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people > will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open > hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and > welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - > "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and > hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE > ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, > it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at > Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and > Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: > listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers > > ----- > > To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: > http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krista.cogan at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 22:20:36 2019 From: krista.cogan at gmail.com (Krista Cogan) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 22:20:36 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> Message-ID: What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I would have thought of it myself! Thank you! See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! ~Bns. Hilda On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre wrote: > While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have an > issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by > the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business > meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be > to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to > choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the > populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a > motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you > point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input > of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's > motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special > that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a > campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to > stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. > > Maighstir Liam > 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < > admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: > >> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >> >> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >> >> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to see >> a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the eve >> of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >> >> ----- >> >> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > > > -- > Shawn MacIntyre > EMT/ FFII/ FI-I > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From medicmacintyre at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 22:27:11 2019 From: medicmacintyre at gmail.com (Shawn MacIntyre) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 22:27:11 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> Message-ID: However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned the announcement. Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours before the meeting. On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan wrote: > What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I > would have thought of it myself! Thank you! > > See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! > > ~Bns. Hilda > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: > >> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have an >> issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by >> the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business >> meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be >> to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to >> choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the >> populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a >> motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you >> point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input >> of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's >> motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special >> that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a >> campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to >> stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >> >> Maighstir Liam >> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < >> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: >> >>> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >>> >>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >>> >>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to >>> see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the >>> eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >>> >>> ----- >>> >>> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >> >> >> -- >> Shawn MacIntyre >> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krista.cogan at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 22:28:28 2019 From: krista.cogan at gmail.com (Krista Cogan) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 22:28:28 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] UPDATE: Baronial Motto - Let's Vote! Message-ID: Hello Debatable Lands! It has been suggested, and I agree will be FAR more fun than a declaration, that we get some more suggestions for a Baronial motto, then have a vote! Let's hear your suggestions! What shall we use? Why do you like it? Give them to me (any media, any form) by 11/23, and we'll have a vote. Don't be shy! Tell us as much or as little as you like! And as many as you like! (We don't even have to have only one...) Can't wait to hear :) In Levitate et Caritate (which means, with Levity and Affection, and that's mine!) ~Bns Hilda -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gwenlygrace at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 22:51:24 2019 From: gwenlygrace at gmail.com (Gwenly Grace) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 22:51:24 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Greetings, I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing that." Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this appears to be a violation of policy. Ever in service, Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre wrote: > However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without > discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without > discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned > the announcement. > > Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, > > B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. Proposed > additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the agenda of the > Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this circumstance the > proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be announced to the populace > on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours before the meeting. > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan > wrote: > >> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I >> would have thought of it myself! Thank you! >> >> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! >> >> ~Bns. Hilda >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have >>> an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by >>> the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business >>> meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be >>> to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to >>> choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the >>> populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a >>> motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you >>> point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input >>> of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's >>> motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special >>> that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a >>> campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to >>> stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >>> >>> Maighstir Liam >>> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < >>> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: >>> >>>> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >>>> >>>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >>>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >>>> >>>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to >>>> see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the >>>> eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >>>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >>>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >>>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >>>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >>>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >>>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >>>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >>>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >>>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >>>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >>>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >>>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >>>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >>>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >>>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> >>>> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >>>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shawn MacIntyre >>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > > > -- > Shawn MacIntyre > EMT/ FFII/ FI-I > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maistresmyfanwy at icloud.com Fri Nov 15 23:07:26 2019 From: maistresmyfanwy at icloud.com (Ruth Morrisson) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 23:07:26 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> Greetings from Myfanwy! I?m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. Remember ? the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, mottoes, and the like. I?m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a motto and letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to suggest otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that the SCA strives for as an ideal. > On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace wrote: > > Greetings, > > I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. > > As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing that." > > Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. > > I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this appears to be a violation of policy. > > Ever in service, > > Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: > However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned the announcement. > > Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, > > B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours before the meeting. > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan > wrote: > What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I would have thought of it myself! Thank you! > > See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! > > ~Bns. Hilda > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: > While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. > > Maighstir Liam > 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates > wrote: > There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! > > Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands > Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman > > Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers > > ----- > > To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056 . > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > > > -- > Shawn MacIntyre > EMT/ FFII/ FI-I > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > > > -- > Shawn MacIntyre > EMT/ FFII/ FI-I > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon Ruth Morrisson MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From medicmacintyre at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 23:12:55 2019 From: medicmacintyre at gmail.com (Shawn MacIntyre) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 23:12:55 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> Message-ID: Personally, I find it discourteous to not bring the idea to the full populace prior to making an announcement. The idea of not allowing the populace to have input prior to making an announcement goes against the proposed motto itself. On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:09 PM Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl < sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > Greetings from Myfanwy! > I?m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. > Remember ? the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, mottoes, > and the like. I?m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a motto and > letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to suggest > otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that the SCA > strives for as an ideal. > > On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace wrote: > > Greetings, > > I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy > decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in > terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was > imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. > > As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or > asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect > "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the > task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force > a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing > that." > > Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's > not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the > same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. > > I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but I > believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good > intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this > appears to be a violation of policy. > > Ever in service, > > Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: > >> However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without >> discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without >> discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned >> the announcement. >> >> Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, >> >> B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. >> Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the >> agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this >> circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be >> announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours >> before the meeting. >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan >> wrote: >> >>> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I >>> would have thought of it myself! Thank you! >>> >>> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! >>> >>> ~Bns. Hilda >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have >>>> an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by >>>> the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business >>>> meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be >>>> to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to >>>> choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the >>>> populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a >>>> motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you >>>> point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input >>>> of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's >>>> motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special >>>> that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a >>>> campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to >>>> stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >>>> >>>> Maighstir Liam >>>> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < >>>> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >>>>> >>>>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >>>>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >>>>> >>>>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to >>>>> see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the >>>>> eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >>>>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >>>>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >>>>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >>>>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >>>>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >>>>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >>>>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >>>>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >>>>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >>>>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >>>>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >>>>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >>>>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >>>>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >>>>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> >>>>> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >>>>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >> >> >> -- >> Shawn MacIntyre >> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > > > > > Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon > Ruth Morrisson > MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.placeway at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 23:12:55 2019 From: paul.placeway at gmail.com (Paul Placeway) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 23:12:55 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Speaking only for myself (of course), I also took Her Excellency?s missive as just as Baron Liam desires: a suggestion. If one likes it, one should use it; if not then not. Perhaps it could be improved, though in this case shortening it would be difficult, and I happen to think that adding words would subtract weight and impact. I happen to like this suggestion. Other mottos are possible. I've discovered that should one wave a yellow towel over ones head and cry "woo woo woo" at the side of the Battlefield, *everyone* knows who one is rooting for and why. As for the question of legitimacy: back in the day when I was Baron, there were certain things that Genevieve and I did, feeling that they were the right thing to do as well as falling within the bounds of the obligations and consequent authority of the Baronage. Some people agreed with our reasoning for what was "in bounds" and some did not. And *every* *one* of our successors have made such decisions; some of which I've agreed with and some not. But having retired, I feel very strongly that Their *Current* Excellencies must have the same leeway that we were afforded when we held that responsibility in trust for the populous of the Barony-Marche. I think that heraldic display (both visual *and* audible), and encouraging a level of comradery, good feeling, and right action amongst the populous of the Barony *absolutely* falls within the leadership purview that is both desired and required of a sitting Baron. I see no problem with either the suggestion, or of Her Excellency using her leadership position to encourage us to be friendly to each other. ? vous sant? chers voisins, --Tofi (OL, OP, etc.) 4th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (long retired) On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:53 PM Gwenly Grace wrote: > Greetings, > > I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy > decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in > terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was > imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. > > As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or > asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect > "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the > task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force > a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing > that." > > Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's > not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the > same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. > > I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but I > believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good > intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this > appears to be a violation of policy. > > Ever in service, > > Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: > >> However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without >> discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without >> discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned >> the announcement. >> >> Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, >> >> B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. >> Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the >> agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this >> circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be >> announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours >> before the meeting. >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan >> wrote: >> >>> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I >>> would have thought of it myself! Thank you! >>> >>> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! >>> >>> ~Bns. Hilda >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have >>>> an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by >>>> the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business >>>> meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be >>>> to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to >>>> choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the >>>> populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a >>>> motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you >>>> point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input >>>> of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's >>>> motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special >>>> that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a >>>> campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to >>>> stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >>>> >>>> Maighstir Liam >>>> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < >>>> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >>>>> >>>>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >>>>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >>>>> >>>>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to >>>>> see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the >>>>> eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >>>>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >>>>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >>>>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >>>>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >>>>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >>>>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >>>>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >>>>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >>>>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >>>>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >>>>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >>>>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >>>>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >>>>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >>>>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> >>>>> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >>>>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >> >> >> -- >> Shawn MacIntyre >> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gwenlygrace at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 23:19:04 2019 From: gwenlygrace at gmail.com (Gwenly Grace) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 23:19:04 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> Message-ID: It was brought up at a meeting in August. It has been in the record since then. The populace has had loads of time to comment on the whim of the Baroness... that said, it is a WHIM, which is not in any way a "decision for the populace." However, your suggestion is being adopted and the matter is being referred according to your wishes. I'm not sure why you're still complaining. Gwen On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:15 PM Shawn MacIntyre wrote: > Personally, I find it discourteous to not bring the idea to the full > populace prior to making an announcement. The idea of not allowing the > populace to have input prior to making an announcement goes against the > proposed motto itself. > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:09 PM Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl < > sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > >> Greetings from Myfanwy! >> I?m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. >> Remember ? the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, mottoes, >> and the like. I?m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a motto and >> letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to suggest >> otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that the SCA >> strives for as an ideal. >> >> On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace wrote: >> >> Greetings, >> >> I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy >> decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in >> terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was >> imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. >> >> As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or >> asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect >> "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the >> task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force >> a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing >> that." >> >> Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's >> not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the >> same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. >> >> I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but >> I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good >> intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this >> appears to be a violation of policy. >> >> Ever in service, >> >> Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without >>> discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without >>> discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned >>> the announcement. >>> >>> Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, >>> >>> B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. >>> Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the >>> agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this >>> circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be >>> announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours >>> before the meeting. >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan >>> wrote: >>> >>>> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I >>>> would have thought of it myself! Thank you! >>>> >>>> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! >>>> >>>> ~Bns. Hilda >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have >>>>> an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by >>>>> the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business >>>>> meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be >>>>> to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to >>>>> choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the >>>>> populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a >>>>> motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you >>>>> point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input >>>>> of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's >>>>> motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special >>>>> that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a >>>>> campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to >>>>> stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >>>>> >>>>> Maighstir Liam >>>>> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < >>>>> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >>>>>> >>>>>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >>>>>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >>>>>> >>>>>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to >>>>>> see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the >>>>>> eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >>>>>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >>>>>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >>>>>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >>>>>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >>>>>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >>>>>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >>>>>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >>>>>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >>>>>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >>>>>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >>>>>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >>>>>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >>>>>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >>>>>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >>>>>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >>>>>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shawn MacIntyre >>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> >> >> >> >> Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon >> Ruth Morrisson >> MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > > > -- > Shawn MacIntyre > EMT/ FFII/ FI-I > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maistresmyfanwy at icloud.com Fri Nov 15 23:19:31 2019 From: maistresmyfanwy at icloud.com (Ruth Morrisson) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 23:19:31 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> Message-ID: <796FE395-63CD-4362-9D58-D1BA0160E8CD@icloud.com> Greetings again! Not being particularly fluent in anything but the vulgar tongue, I turned to the next best thing: Google Translate. ;-). It didn?t particularly like ?salve accolens? but did show ?accolens? as a Latin form of ?neighbors.? It did seem to like ?adcolens?, however. And when I swapped directions for the translation, it gave, as the Latin for ?Hello neighbors? as ?salve finitimi?. > On Nov 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl wrote: > > Greetings from Myfanwy! > I?m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. > Remember ? the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, mottoes, and the like. I?m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a motto and letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to suggest otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that the SCA strives for as an ideal. > >> On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace > wrote: >> >> Greetings, >> >> I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. >> >> As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing that." >> >> Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. >> >> I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this appears to be a violation of policy. >> >> Ever in service, >> >> Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: >> However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned the announcement. >> >> Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, >> >> B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours before the meeting. >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan > wrote: >> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I would have thought of it myself! Thank you! >> >> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! >> >> ~Bns. Hilda >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: >> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >> >> Maighstir Liam >> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates > wrote: >> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >> >> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >> >> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >> >> ----- >> >> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056 . >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> >> >> -- >> Shawn MacIntyre >> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> >> >> -- >> Shawn MacIntyre >> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > > > > Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon > Ruth Morrisson > MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon Ruth Morrisson MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From medicmacintyre at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 23:39:43 2019 From: medicmacintyre at gmail.com (Shawn MacIntyre) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 23:39:43 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: <796FE395-63CD-4362-9D58-D1BA0160E8CD@icloud.com> References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> <796FE395-63CD-4362-9D58-D1BA0160E8CD@icloud.com> Message-ID: My intent was to point out that this is a decision that should have been made with input of the populace being involved. It upsets me that somehow my comments were a personal attack against someone instead of the actual intent, to get input from the populace. On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:20 PM Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl < sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > Greetings again! > Not being particularly fluent in anything but the vulgar tongue, I turned > to the next best thing: Google Translate. ;-). It didn?t particularly like > ?salve accolens? but did show ?accolens? as a Latin form of ?neighbors.? > It did seem to like ?adcolens?, however. And when I swapped directions > for the translation, it gave, as the Latin for ?Hello neighbors? as ?salve > finitimi?. > > > > On Nov 15, 2019, at 11:07 PM, Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl < > sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > > Greetings from Myfanwy! > I?m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. > Remember ? the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, mottoes, > and the like. I?m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a motto and > letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to suggest > otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that the SCA > strives for as an ideal. > > On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace wrote: > > Greetings, > > I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy > decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in > terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was > imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. > > As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or > asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect > "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the > task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force > a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing > that." > > Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's > not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the > same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. > > I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but I > believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good > intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this > appears to be a violation of policy. > > Ever in service, > > Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: > >> However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without >> discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without >> discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned >> the announcement. >> >> Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, >> >> B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. >> Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the >> agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this >> circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be >> announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours >> before the meeting. >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan >> wrote: >> >>> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I >>> would have thought of it myself! Thank you! >>> >>> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! >>> >>> ~Bns. Hilda >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have >>>> an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by >>>> the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business >>>> meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be >>>> to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to >>>> choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the >>>> populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a >>>> motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you >>>> point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input >>>> of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's >>>> motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special >>>> that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a >>>> campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to >>>> stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >>>> >>>> Maighstir Liam >>>> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < >>>> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >>>>> >>>>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >>>>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >>>>> >>>>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to >>>>> see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the >>>>> eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >>>>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >>>>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >>>>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >>>>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >>>>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >>>>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >>>>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >>>>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >>>>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >>>>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >>>>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >>>>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >>>>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >>>>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >>>>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> >>>>> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >>>>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >> >> >> -- >> Shawn MacIntyre >> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > > > > > Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon > Ruth Morrisson > MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > > > > > Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon > Ruth Morrisson > MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krista.cogan at gmail.com Fri Nov 15 23:43:15 2019 From: krista.cogan at gmail.com (Krista Cogan) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 23:43:15 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> Message-ID: Master Liam, I am very sorry to have offended you and any others that may feel the same. Your wife, Her Excellency Constance, pointed out to me on Facebook that my post was not crystal clear that such things are optional. In re-reading my blog post from a different point of view, I could absolutely see her point, particularly as regards newer people who aren't as familiar with the ins and outs of SCA workings. I attempted to correct that both here on the email list and Facebook. You then suggested it should have been put before the populace more publicly that a discussion at a Business meeting (August). That had not been suggested previously to me that I can recall, and I hadn't thought of it, but it's a good idea. I moved to do just that, tonight. Since we are doing this publicly, I would say a personal tenet of mine publicly: that when someone tells you they are hurt. we do not get to decide that they were not hurt. I apologize for hurting you, and others who share your thoughts. If there's anything further I can do to rectify, beyond taking your and Her Excellency Constance's suggestions, please do let me know. I thank all who have posted some clarifications here on the deeper aspects of how we work. They are very much appreciated. And remember - Mottos are fun! Let's make some fun! ~Hilda ?Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors.? -Fred Rogers On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:16 PM Shawn MacIntyre wrote: > Personally, I find it discourteous to not bring the idea to the full > populace prior to making an announcement. The idea of not allowing the > populace to have input prior to making an announcement goes against the > proposed motto itself. > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:09 PM Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl < > sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > >> Greetings from Myfanwy! >> I?m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. >> Remember ? the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, mottoes, >> and the like. I?m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a motto and >> letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to suggest >> otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that the SCA >> strives for as an ideal. >> >> On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace wrote: >> >> Greetings, >> >> I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy >> decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in >> terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was >> imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. >> >> As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or >> asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect >> "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the >> task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force >> a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing >> that." >> >> Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's >> not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the >> same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. >> >> I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but >> I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good >> intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this >> appears to be a violation of policy. >> >> Ever in service, >> >> Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without >>> discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without >>> discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned >>> the announcement. >>> >>> Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, >>> >>> B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. >>> Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the >>> agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this >>> circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be >>> announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours >>> before the meeting. >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan >>> wrote: >>> >>>> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I >>>> would have thought of it myself! Thank you! >>>> >>>> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! >>>> >>>> ~Bns. Hilda >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have >>>>> an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by >>>>> the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business >>>>> meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be >>>>> to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to >>>>> choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the >>>>> populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a >>>>> motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you >>>>> point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input >>>>> of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's >>>>> motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special >>>>> that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a >>>>> campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to >>>>> stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >>>>> >>>>> Maighstir Liam >>>>> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < >>>>> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >>>>>> >>>>>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >>>>>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >>>>>> >>>>>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to >>>>>> see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the >>>>>> eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >>>>>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >>>>>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >>>>>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >>>>>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >>>>>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >>>>>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >>>>>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >>>>>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >>>>>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >>>>>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >>>>>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >>>>>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >>>>>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >>>>>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >>>>>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >>>>>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shawn MacIntyre >>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> >> >> >> >> Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon >> Ruth Morrisson >> MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > > > -- > Shawn MacIntyre > EMT/ FFII/ FI-I > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From medicmacintyre at gmail.com Sat Nov 16 00:02:34 2019 From: medicmacintyre at gmail.com (Shawn MacIntyre) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 00:02:34 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> Message-ID: As was conveyed to Hilda and Bradubh via private email: It was not my intent to make you or Brandubh look like horrible people for not seeking further input beyond the August meeting. The way I read your announcement seemed that an idea was being thrust upon without the populace having input. My intent was simply to give others opinions and a chance to submit ideas. The way I read your original post, I read it as you were making this policy and felt that proper channels should be gone through. That is all, I wasn't raising a ruckus just to do so, my allegiance is with the populace, as it was when I served the populace. In service, Liam On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:45 PM Krista Cogan wrote: > Master Liam, I am very sorry to have offended you and any others that may > feel the same. Your wife, Her Excellency Constance, pointed out to me on > Facebook that my post was not crystal clear that such things are optional. > In re-reading my blog post from a different point of view, I could > absolutely see her point, particularly as regards newer people who aren't > as familiar with the ins and outs of SCA workings. I attempted to correct > that both here on the email list and Facebook. You then suggested it should > have been put before the populace more publicly that a discussion at a > Business meeting (August). That had not been suggested previously to me > that I can recall, and I hadn't thought of it, but it's a good idea. I > moved to do just that, tonight. > > Since we are doing this publicly, I would say a personal tenet of mine > publicly: that when someone tells you they are hurt. we do not get to > decide that they were not hurt. I apologize for hurting you, and others who > share your thoughts. If there's anything further I can do to rectify, > beyond taking your and Her Excellency Constance's suggestions, please do > let me know. > > I thank all who have posted some clarifications here on the deeper aspects > of how we work. They are very much appreciated. > > And remember - Mottos are fun! Let's make some fun! > > ~Hilda > > ?Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our > neighbors.? -Fred Rogers > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:16 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: > >> Personally, I find it discourteous to not bring the idea to the full >> populace prior to making an announcement. The idea of not allowing the >> populace to have input prior to making an announcement goes against the >> proposed motto itself. >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:09 PM Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl < >> sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: >> >>> Greetings from Myfanwy! >>> I?m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. >>> Remember ? the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, mottoes, >>> and the like. I?m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a motto and >>> letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to suggest >>> otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that the SCA >>> strives for as an ideal. >>> >>> On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace >>> wrote: >>> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy >>> decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in >>> terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was >>> imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. >>> >>> As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or >>> asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect >>> "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the >>> task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force >>> a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing >>> that." >>> >>> Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's >>> not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the >>> same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. >>> >>> I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but >>> I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good >>> intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this >>> appears to be a violation of policy. >>> >>> Ever in service, >>> >>> Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without >>>> discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without >>>> discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned >>>> the announcement. >>>> >>>> Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, >>>> >>>> B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. >>>> Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the >>>> agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this >>>> circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be >>>> announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours >>>> before the meeting. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I >>>>> would have thought of it myself! Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! >>>>> >>>>> ~Bns. Hilda >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>>>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I >>>>>> have an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and >>>>>> chosen by the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the >>>>>> business meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea >>>>>> would be to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a >>>>>> contest to choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on >>>>>> behalf of the populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" >>>>>> to the SCA, a motto is something that the populace as a whole should >>>>>> decide. While you point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it >>>>>> lacks the input of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael >>>>>> and Thescorre's motto have meaning to the populace because they represent >>>>>> something special that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more >>>>>> like making a campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, >>>>>> without a reason to stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maighstir Liam >>>>>> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < >>>>>> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >>>>>>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below >>>>>>> to see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, >>>>>>> the eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >>>>>>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >>>>>>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >>>>>>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >>>>>>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >>>>>>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >>>>>>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >>>>>>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >>>>>>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >>>>>>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >>>>>>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >>>>>>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >>>>>>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >>>>>>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >>>>>>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >>>>>>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >>>>>>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon >>> Ruth Morrisson >>> MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >> >> >> -- >> Shawn MacIntyre >> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gwenlygrace at gmail.com Sat Nov 16 00:54:48 2019 From: gwenlygrace at gmail.com (Gwenly Grace) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 00:54:48 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> Message-ID: Your Excellency, It is well to recognize that one's intent does not always match one's effect. Thank you for publicly acknowledging this, and for clearing the record with respect to Their Excellencies' character and reputation. It is also true that the original message could have seemed like an order, being as it was, a declaration rather than a petition. The central problem with your initial objection, however, still stands. Regardless of whether you thought the populace had been given ample opportunity to provide input and counsel, in this matter, no counsel is or ever has been required. A motto cannot be a matter of policy. There are no "proper channels" such as you suggest. Actually, that's incorrect! The "proper channel" is for the Baroness and Baron, upon seeing a potentiality for the betterment of Baronial morale or cohesion or strength or general spiffyness, to issue the sort of decree that creates those impressions of and fosters esprit de corps among Their populace, such as: Hey, let's all use "Hi, Neighbors" as our motto...only in Latin, so it sounds cool! I will repeat what I said in my first email on this subject, and let me be crystal clear: They are in no way obligated to consult or to involve the populace in such a decision. It is not and CANNOT be a policy matter. As such, your intent, even as you express it, was misguided from the start. Having had it pointed out to you that it is NOT a policy decision, and that you were incorrect in that assessment, you still persisted in "raising a ruckus." Indeed, even after the Baroness graciously acceeded to your suggestions - as she has continuously done throughout this evening - you continued to complain. You are welcome to complain about the content or sentiment of the motto chosen, or to choose not to intone it. But you erred in continuing to complain about the process. It is the prerogative of the Baronage to introduce pomp, ceremony, and pageantry to the game we play. Their method of doing so is not up to us to determine. We, as subjects of the Baronage, owe our Baronial seat the courtesy and respect of following their leadership. One more thing: when I said you are welcome to complain...that's not quite true. You are of course welcome to any opinion on the actions, undertakings, and initiatives that the Baronage may propose. But! As Peers, it is further incumbent upon us to render any such complaints as we might have, baseless or otherwise, privately and politely, with as much courtesy as possible, and in the conviction that no one, least of all someone in a leadership position elected by the populace, should be presumed to have improper intent. Once those objections have been lodged, it is then proper for us to keep them to ourselves, and outwardly support our regional heads. This is their due as appointed representatives of the Crown. The SCA is not a democracy in matters such as these. That is the "game" we agree to play and the rules we, as Peers, are meant to uphold. Now. I'm gonna go watch the Mandalorian. I will see you all in the next beautiful day in our neighborhood. Ever in Service, Gwen On Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 12:03 AM Shawn MacIntyre wrote: > As was conveyed to Hilda and Bradubh via private email: It was not my > intent to make you or Brandubh look like horrible people for not seeking > further input beyond the August meeting. The way I read your announcement > seemed that an idea was being thrust upon without the populace having > input. My intent was simply to give others opinions and a chance to submit > ideas. The way I read your original post, I read it as you were making this > policy and felt that proper channels should be gone through. > > That is all, I wasn't raising a ruckus just to do so, my allegiance is > with the populace, as it was when I served the populace. > > In service, > Liam > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:45 PM Krista Cogan > wrote: > >> Master Liam, I am very sorry to have offended you and any others that may >> feel the same. Your wife, Her Excellency Constance, pointed out to me on >> Facebook that my post was not crystal clear that such things are optional. >> In re-reading my blog post from a different point of view, I could >> absolutely see her point, particularly as regards newer people who aren't >> as familiar with the ins and outs of SCA workings. I attempted to correct >> that both here on the email list and Facebook. You then suggested it should >> have been put before the populace more publicly that a discussion at a >> Business meeting (August). That had not been suggested previously to me >> that I can recall, and I hadn't thought of it, but it's a good idea. I >> moved to do just that, tonight. >> >> Since we are doing this publicly, I would say a personal tenet of mine >> publicly: that when someone tells you they are hurt. we do not get to >> decide that they were not hurt. I apologize for hurting you, and others who >> share your thoughts. If there's anything further I can do to rectify, >> beyond taking your and Her Excellency Constance's suggestions, please do >> let me know. >> >> I thank all who have posted some clarifications here on the deeper >> aspects of how we work. They are very much appreciated. >> >> And remember - Mottos are fun! Let's make some fun! >> >> ~Hilda >> >> ?Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our >> neighbors.? -Fred Rogers >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:16 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Personally, I find it discourteous to not bring the idea to the full >>> populace prior to making an announcement. The idea of not allowing the >>> populace to have input prior to making an announcement goes against the >>> proposed motto itself. >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:09 PM Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl < >>> sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings from Myfanwy! >>>> I?m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. >>>> Remember ? the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, >>>> mottoes, and the like. I?m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a >>>> motto and letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to >>>> suggest otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that >>>> the SCA strives for as an ideal. >>>> >>>> On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy >>>> decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in >>>> terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was >>>> imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. >>>> >>>> As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted >>>> or asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and >>>> incorrect "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it >>>> was the task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in >>>> fact force a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, >>>> not doing that." >>>> >>>> Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's >>>> not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the >>>> same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. >>>> >>>> I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, >>>> but I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good >>>> intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this >>>> appears to be a violation of policy. >>>> >>>> Ever in service, >>>> >>>> Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without >>>>> discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without >>>>> discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned >>>>> the announcement. >>>>> >>>>> Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, >>>>> >>>>> B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. >>>>> Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the >>>>> agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this >>>>> circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be >>>>> announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours >>>>> before the meeting. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I >>>>>> would have thought of it myself! Thank you! >>>>>> >>>>>> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! >>>>>> >>>>>> ~Bns. Hilda >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>>>>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I >>>>>>> have an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and >>>>>>> chosen by the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the >>>>>>> business meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea >>>>>>> would be to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a >>>>>>> contest to choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on >>>>>>> behalf of the populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" >>>>>>> to the SCA, a motto is something that the populace as a whole should >>>>>>> decide. While you point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it >>>>>>> lacks the input of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael >>>>>>> and Thescorre's motto have meaning to the populace because they represent >>>>>>> something special that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more >>>>>>> like making a campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, >>>>>>> without a reason to stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maighstir Liam >>>>>>> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < >>>>>>> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >>>>>>>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below >>>>>>>> to see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, >>>>>>>> the eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >>>>>>>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >>>>>>>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >>>>>>>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >>>>>>>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >>>>>>>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >>>>>>>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >>>>>>>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >>>>>>>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >>>>>>>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >>>>>>>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >>>>>>>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >>>>>>>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >>>>>>>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >>>>>>>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >>>>>>>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >>>>>>>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>>>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon >>>> Ruth Morrisson >>>> MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shawn MacIntyre >>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > > > -- > Shawn MacIntyre > EMT/ FFII/ FI-I > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sat Nov 16 09:45:17 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 07:45:17 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Sunday Archery Practice Message-ID: <201911161445.xAGEjH2d016322@p3nlhg627.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From medicmacintyre at gmail.com Sat Nov 16 11:07:37 2019 From: medicmacintyre at gmail.com (Shawn MacIntyre) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 11:07:37 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> Message-ID: Gwen, My oath to the KIngdom is to speak when I feel something is not right or not done correctly, it is my job as a peer. I have never been one to sit silent and will never be. While you seem to think my complaint as baseless, I strongly disagree, part of my oath to the Kingdom is to speak when I feel that the voices of others are not heard. You are welcome to disagree, as is your right. Her Excellency appears to understand my point, however speaking out about the issue is not only my job as a Peer, but my right as a member of the populace. Anyone is free to disagree with me, or state another opinion, that is their right. In service, Liam On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 12:56 AM Gwenly Grace wrote: > Your Excellency, > > It is well to recognize that one's intent does not always match one's > effect. Thank you for publicly acknowledging this, and for clearing the > record with respect to Their Excellencies' character and reputation. > > It is also true that the original message could have seemed like an order, > being as it was, a declaration rather than a petition. > > The central problem with your initial objection, however, still stands. > Regardless of whether you thought the populace had been given ample > opportunity to provide input and counsel, in this matter, no counsel is or > ever has been required. A motto cannot be a matter of policy. There are no > "proper channels" such as you suggest. Actually, that's incorrect! The > "proper channel" is for the Baroness and Baron, upon seeing a potentiality > for the betterment of Baronial morale or cohesion or strength or general > spiffyness, to issue the sort of decree that creates those impressions of > and fosters esprit de corps among Their populace, such as: Hey, let's all > use "Hi, Neighbors" as our motto...only in Latin, so it sounds cool! > > I will repeat what I said in my first email on this subject, and let me be > crystal clear: They are in no way obligated to consult or to involve the > populace in such a decision. It is not and CANNOT be a policy matter. As > such, your intent, even as you express it, was misguided from the start. > Having had it pointed out to you that it is NOT a policy decision, and that > you were incorrect in that assessment, you still persisted in "raising a > ruckus." Indeed, even after the Baroness graciously acceeded to your > suggestions - as she has continuously done throughout this evening - you > continued to complain. > > You are welcome to complain about the content or sentiment of the motto > chosen, or to choose not to intone it. But you erred in continuing to > complain about the process. > > It is the prerogative of the Baronage to introduce pomp, ceremony, and > pageantry to the game we play. Their method of doing so is not up to us to > determine. We, as subjects of the Baronage, owe our Baronial seat the > courtesy and respect of following their leadership. > > One more thing: when I said you are welcome to complain...that's not quite > true. You are of course welcome to any opinion on the actions, > undertakings, and initiatives that the Baronage may propose. But! As Peers, > it is further incumbent upon us to render any such complaints as we might > have, baseless or otherwise, privately and politely, with as much courtesy > as possible, and in the conviction that no one, least of all someone in a > leadership position elected by the populace, should be presumed to have > improper intent. Once those objections have been lodged, it is then proper > for us to keep them to ourselves, and outwardly support our regional heads. > This is their due as appointed representatives of the Crown. The SCA is not > a democracy in matters such as these. That is the "game" we agree to play > and the rules we, as Peers, are meant to uphold. > > Now. I'm gonna go watch the Mandalorian. I will see you all in the next > beautiful day in our neighborhood. > > Ever in Service, > > Gwen > > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 12:03 AM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: > >> As was conveyed to Hilda and Bradubh via private email: It was not my >> intent to make you or Brandubh look like horrible people for not seeking >> further input beyond the August meeting. The way I read your announcement >> seemed that an idea was being thrust upon without the populace having >> input. My intent was simply to give others opinions and a chance to submit >> ideas. The way I read your original post, I read it as you were making this >> policy and felt that proper channels should be gone through. >> >> That is all, I wasn't raising a ruckus just to do so, my allegiance is >> with the populace, as it was when I served the populace. >> >> In service, >> Liam >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:45 PM Krista Cogan >> wrote: >> >>> Master Liam, I am very sorry to have offended you and any others that >>> may feel the same. Your wife, Her Excellency Constance, pointed out to me >>> on Facebook that my post was not crystal clear that such things are >>> optional. In re-reading my blog post from a different point of view, I >>> could absolutely see her point, particularly as regards newer people who >>> aren't as familiar with the ins and outs of SCA workings. I attempted to >>> correct that both here on the email list and Facebook. You then suggested >>> it should have been put before the populace more publicly that a discussion >>> at a Business meeting (August). That had not been suggested previously to >>> me that I can recall, and I hadn't thought of it, but it's a good idea. I >>> moved to do just that, tonight. >>> >>> Since we are doing this publicly, I would say a personal tenet of mine >>> publicly: that when someone tells you they are hurt. we do not get to >>> decide that they were not hurt. I apologize for hurting you, and others who >>> share your thoughts. If there's anything further I can do to rectify, >>> beyond taking your and Her Excellency Constance's suggestions, please do >>> let me know. >>> >>> I thank all who have posted some clarifications here on the deeper >>> aspects of how we work. They are very much appreciated. >>> >>> And remember - Mottos are fun! Let's make some fun! >>> >>> ~Hilda >>> >>> ?Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our >>> neighbors.? -Fred Rogers >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:16 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Personally, I find it discourteous to not bring the idea to the full >>>> populace prior to making an announcement. The idea of not allowing the >>>> populace to have input prior to making an announcement goes against the >>>> proposed motto itself. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:09 PM Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl < >>>> sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Greetings from Myfanwy! >>>>> I?m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. >>>>> Remember ? the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, >>>>> mottoes, and the like. I?m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a >>>>> motto and letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to >>>>> suggest otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that >>>>> the SCA strives for as an ideal. >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Greetings, >>>>> >>>>> I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy >>>>> decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in >>>>> terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was >>>>> imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. >>>>> >>>>> As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted >>>>> or asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and >>>>> incorrect "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it >>>>> was the task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in >>>>> fact force a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, >>>>> not doing that." >>>>> >>>>> Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, >>>>> it's not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in >>>>> the same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. >>>>> >>>>> I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, >>>>> but I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good >>>>> intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this >>>>> appears to be a violation of policy. >>>>> >>>>> Ever in service, >>>>> >>>>> Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>>>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without >>>>>> discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without >>>>>> discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned >>>>>> the announcement. >>>>>> >>>>>> Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, >>>>>> >>>>>> B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. >>>>>> Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the >>>>>> agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this >>>>>> circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be >>>>>> announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours >>>>>> before the meeting. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish >>>>>>> I would have thought of it myself! Thank you! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ~Bns. Hilda >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre < >>>>>>> medicmacintyre at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I >>>>>>>> have an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and >>>>>>>> chosen by the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the >>>>>>>> business meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea >>>>>>>> would be to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a >>>>>>>> contest to choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on >>>>>>>> behalf of the populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" >>>>>>>> to the SCA, a motto is something that the populace as a whole should >>>>>>>> decide. While you point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it >>>>>>>> lacks the input of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael >>>>>>>> and Thescorre's motto have meaning to the populace because they represent >>>>>>>> something special that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more >>>>>>>> like making a campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, >>>>>>>> without a reason to stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maighstir Liam >>>>>>>> 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates < >>>>>>>> admin at debatablelands.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands >>>>>>>>> Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below >>>>>>>>> to see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, >>>>>>>>> the eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and >>>>>>>>> schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE >>>>>>>>> ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World >>>>>>>>> Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and >>>>>>>>> courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. >>>>>>>>> The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people >>>>>>>>> will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open >>>>>>>>> hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and >>>>>>>>> welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - >>>>>>>>> "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and >>>>>>>>> hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE >>>>>>>>> ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, >>>>>>>>> it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at >>>>>>>>> Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and >>>>>>>>> Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: >>>>>>>>> listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: >>>>>>>>> http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>>>>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon >>>>> Ruth Morrisson >>>>> MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Shawn MacIntyre >>>> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sca-bmdl mailing list >>> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >>> >> >> >> -- >> Shawn MacIntyre >> EMT/ FFII/ FI-I >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sca-bmdl mailing list >> Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl >> > _______________________________________________ > Sca-bmdl mailing list > Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl > -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Thu Nov 21 14:01:06 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 12:01:06 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Call for Letters - Seneschal Message-ID: <201911211901.xALJ16x8012464@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Fri Nov 22 23:51:57 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2019 21:51:57 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Fight Practice November 24 Message-ID: <201911230451.xAN4pvRD020519@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sat Nov 23 08:13:59 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 06:13:59 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Fencing at Chinese Church Sunday November 24 Message-ID: <201911231313.xANDDxVs001155@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krista.cogan at gmail.com Sat Nov 23 09:09:22 2019 From: krista.cogan at gmail.com (Krista Cogan) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 09:09:22 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] UPDATE: Baronial Motto - Let's Vote! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Last day to suggest mottoes! Send them to me, or post them here! Feel free to include as much info as you like! ~H On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:28 PM Krista Cogan wrote: > Hello Debatable Lands! > > It has been suggested, and I agree will be FAR more fun than a > declaration, that we get some more suggestions for a Baronial motto, then > have a vote! > > Let's hear your suggestions! What shall we use? Why do you like it? > > Give them to me (any media, any form) by 11/23, and we'll have a vote. > Don't be shy! Tell us as much or as little as you like! And as many as you > like! (We don't even have to have only one...) > > Can't wait to hear :) > > In Levitate et Caritate (which means, with Levity and Affection, and > that's mine!) > ~Bns Hilda > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sat Nov 23 10:18:17 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 08:18:17 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] This Sunday Archery practice Cancelled Message-ID: <201911231518.xANFIH8K021918@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sat Nov 23 16:04:15 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 14:04:15 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Youth Practice Message-ID: <201911232104.xANL4Fc0022936@p3nlhg630.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sat Nov 23 17:27:34 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 15:27:34 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Chivalry Writ Served to Baronial Champ! Message-ID: <201911232227.xANMRYtA012140@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sun Nov 24 11:34:24 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 09:34:24 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] A reminder Message-ID: <201911241634.xAOGYOfc001088@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Mon Nov 25 11:23:36 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 09:23:36 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Sewing Circle December Dates Message-ID: <201911251623.xAPGNagI003226@p3nlhg630.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Thu Nov 28 07:50:43 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 05:50:43 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Giving Thanks Message-ID: <201911281250.xASCohB1021955@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Thu Nov 28 14:37:11 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 12:37:11 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Cookie Baking with the Food Guild! Message-ID: <201911281937.xASJbBLM008744@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Thu Nov 28 14:37:13 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 12:37:13 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Cookie Baking with the Food Guild! Message-ID: <201911281937.xASJbDTf008862@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Fri Nov 29 21:55:33 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 19:55:33 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Fight Practice December 1 Message-ID: <201911300255.xAU2tXix031931@p3nlhg627.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at debatablelands.org Sat Nov 30 10:41:05 2019 From: admin at debatablelands.org (Stórfréttir Updates) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 08:41:05 -0700 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Sunday Archery Practice at Noon Message-ID: <201911301541.xAUFf5Z9002715@p3nlhg630.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elss.of.augsburg at gmail.com Sat Nov 30 17:58:18 2019 From: elss.of.augsburg at gmail.com (Elss Augsburg) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 17:58:18 -0500 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Fwd: Cookie Baking with the Food Guild! In-Reply-To: <201911281937.xASJbDTf008862@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> References: <201911281937.xASJbDTf008862@p3nlhg628.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Cookie Baking with the Food Guild! Read the better formatted announcement below. NOTE: due to a severe allergy, there can be NO nuts or nut products prepped or baked at the house - no peanuts, almonds, walnuts, or anything. It's fine if people bring already baked cookies containing nuts as long as they are kept separate. There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! Cookie Baking with the Food Guild! Posted by: Food & Culinary Guild COOKIE BAKING with the Food Guild! DATE: Sunday, December 8, 2019 TIME: Noon-ish or 1-ish to start, 5 pm-ish or 6 pm-ish to end Place: Brandie Lee's House in Wexford Love baking for the holidays? Need to test recipes for the Twelfth Night Baking Contest? Want tons of homemade cookies for Santa? Bring your recipes and your ingredients, mix ?em up and bake ?em in Tierrany Rose?s kitchen in Wexford, or bring your frozen cookie dough and bake with us. Want to swap cookies? Great! Bring something to trade. Want to sip hot beverages and nibble and chat? Yay! Tierrany will have coffee and teas ready to enjoy. There may be an outbreak of largess making, you never know. Kids are welcome and so are other random family and friends; there are three kitties living there, so medicate as appropriate. To get the address, check the Dark Pages at http://debatablelands.org/resources/darkpages.php or email me at elss.of.augsburg at gmail.com, or if you are on Facebook, send a PM to Brandie Lee or Elss Augsburg. You can also text me at 724.759.3333. To see the Food Guild on FB, go to https://www.facebook.com/groups/1127336207449384/ See you there!Elss Augsburg ----- To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4093. _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schwoegl at verizon.net Sat Nov 16 12:33:24 2019 From: schwoegl at verizon.net (schwoegl at verizon.net) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 17:33:24 -0000 Subject: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands In-Reply-To: References: <201911152133.xAFLXcF6023693@p3nlhg629.shr.prod.phx3.secureserver.net> <9250142B-4959-46FF-AB66-B316755ED6E3@icloud.com> Message-ID: <00e901d59ca3$f0913c70$d1b3b550$@verizon.net> Personally, I like Her Excellency Hilda?s, ?See what we can accomplish together? Remus Fletcher From: Sca-bmdl On Behalf Of Shawn MacIntyre Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2019 11:08 AM To: sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [SCA-BMDL] Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands Gwen, My oath to the KIngdom is to speak when I feel something is not right or not done correctly, it is my job as a peer. I have never been one to sit silent and will never be. While you seem to think my complaint as baseless, I strongly disagree, part of my oath to the Kingdom is to speak when I feel that the voices of others are not heard. You are welcome to disagree, as is your right. Her Excellency appears to understand my point, however speaking out about the issue is not only my job as a Peer, but my right as a member of the populace. Anyone is free to disagree with me, or state another opinion, that is their right. In service, Liam On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 12:56 AM Gwenly Grace > wrote: Your Excellency, It is well to recognize that one's intent does not always match one's effect. Thank you for publicly acknowledging this, and for clearing the record with respect to Their Excellencies' character and reputation. It is also true that the original message could have seemed like an order, being as it was, a declaration rather than a petition. The central problem with your initial objection, however, still stands. Regardless of whether you thought the populace had been given ample opportunity to provide input and counsel, in this matter, no counsel is or ever has been required. A motto cannot be a matter of policy. There are no "proper channels" such as you suggest. Actually, that's incorrect! The "proper channel" is for the Baroness and Baron, upon seeing a potentiality for the betterment of Baronial morale or cohesion or strength or general spiffyness, to issue the sort of decree that creates those impressions of and fosters esprit de corps among Their populace, such as: Hey, let's all use "Hi, Neighbors" as our motto...only in Latin, so it sounds cool! I will repeat what I said in my first email on this subject, and let me be crystal clear: They are in no way obligated to consult or to involve the populace in such a decision. It is not and CANNOT be a policy matter. As such, your intent, even as you express it, was misguided from the start. Having had it pointed out to you that it is NOT a policy decision, and that you were incorrect in that assessment, you still persisted in "raising a ruckus." Indeed, even after the Baroness graciously acceeded to your suggestions - as she has continuously done throughout this evening - you continued to complain. You are welcome to complain about the content or sentiment of the motto chosen, or to choose not to intone it. But you erred in continuing to complain about the process. It is the prerogative of the Baronage to introduce pomp, ceremony, and pageantry to the game we play. Their method of doing so is not up to us to determine. We, as subjects of the Baronage, owe our Baronial seat the courtesy and respect of following their leadership. One more thing: when I said you are welcome to complain...that's not quite true. You are of course welcome to any opinion on the actions, undertakings, and initiatives that the Baronage may propose. But! As Peers, it is further incumbent upon us to render any such complaints as we might have, baseless or otherwise, privately and politely, with as much courtesy as possible, and in the conviction that no one, least of all someone in a leadership position elected by the populace, should be presumed to have improper intent. Once those objections have been lodged, it is then proper for us to keep them to ourselves, and outwardly support our regional heads. This is their due as appointed representatives of the Crown. The SCA is not a democracy in matters such as these. That is the "game" we agree to play and the rules we, as Peers, are meant to uphold. Now. I'm gonna go watch the Mandalorian. I will see you all in the next beautiful day in our neighborhood. Ever in Service, Gwen On Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 12:03 AM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: As was conveyed to Hilda and Bradubh via private email: It was not my intent to make you or Brandubh look like horrible people for not seeking further input beyond the August meeting. The way I read your announcement seemed that an idea was being thrust upon without the populace having input. My intent was simply to give others opinions and a chance to submit ideas. The way I read your original post, I read it as you were making this policy and felt that proper channels should be gone through. That is all, I wasn't raising a ruckus just to do so, my allegiance is with the populace, as it was when I served the populace. In service, Liam On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:45 PM Krista Cogan > wrote: Master Liam, I am very sorry to have offended you and any others that may feel the same. Your wife, Her Excellency Constance, pointed out to me on Facebook that my post was not crystal clear that such things are optional. In re-reading my blog post from a different point of view, I could absolutely see her point, particularly as regards newer people who aren't as familiar with the ins and outs of SCA workings. I attempted to correct that both here on the email list and Facebook. You then suggested it should have been put before the populace more publicly that a discussion at a Business meeting (August). That had not been suggested previously to me that I can recall, and I hadn't thought of it, but it's a good idea. I moved to do just that, tonight. Since we are doing this publicly, I would say a personal tenet of mine publicly: that when someone tells you they are hurt. we do not get to decide that they were not hurt. I apologize for hurting you, and others who share your thoughts. If there's anything further I can do to rectify, beyond taking your and Her Excellency Constance's suggestions, please do let me know. I thank all who have posted some clarifications here on the deeper aspects of how we work. They are very much appreciated. And remember - Mottos are fun! Let's make some fun! ~Hilda ?Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors.? -Fred Rogers On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:16 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: Personally, I find it discourteous to not bring the idea to the full populace prior to making an announcement. The idea of not allowing the populace to have input prior to making an announcement goes against the proposed motto itself. On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:09 PM Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl > wrote: Greetings from Myfanwy! I?m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. Remember ? the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, mottoes, and the like. I?m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a motto and letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to suggest otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that the SCA strives for as an ideal. On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace > wrote: Greetings, I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing that." Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness. I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this appears to be a violation of policy. Ever in service, Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned the announcement. Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B, B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. Proposed additions or changes to Baronial policies must appear on the agenda of the Officers' meeting at which they are ratified. In this circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the agenda shall be announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours before the meeting. On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan > wrote: What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I would have thought of it myself! Thank you! See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy! ~Bns. Hilda On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre > wrote: While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto. Maighstir Liam 7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired) On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM St?rfr?ttir Updates > wrote: There is new Baronial News at the St?rfr?ttir! Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to see a formatted version with live links at the blog website. On this, the eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto! SALVE ACCOLENS! What does it mean? HELLO NEIGHBORS! It is the week of World Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - "Salve Accolens". We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors. SALVE ACCOLENS! Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity. (Also, it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!) See you at Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow! In Levitate et Caritate, and Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda "Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers ----- To see or comment on this post on the St?rfr?ttir, click here: http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056. _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl Maistres Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon Ruth Morrisson MaistresMyfanwy at icloud.com _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl _______________________________________________ Sca-bmdl mailing list Sca-bmdl at lists.andrew.cmu.edu https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-bmdl -- Shawn MacIntyre EMT/ FFII/ FI-I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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