From cbovell at nburlington.com Thu Apr 10 12:21:30 2025 From: cbovell at nburlington.com (Carlos Bovell) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2025 16:21:30 +0000 Subject: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects Message-ID: Help! Morale is getting low. Alice 3 is closing suddenly on students without warning. We are using Dell Optiplex 7000s Windows 11 Pro. Anyone else familiar with something like this happening? Carlos Bovell Northern Burlington High School -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanderhyde at sxu.edu Thu Apr 10 14:25:41 2025 From: vanderhyde at sxu.edu (Vanderhyde, James) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2025 18:25:41 +0000 Subject: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carlos, I don?t see it happen in class too much, but the students report crashes while working on homework projects. I remind them that Alice saves backup files, so they may not have lost everything. They are in the same folder as the project, with the Alice project name as the name of the backup folder. James ? James Vanderhyde Associate Professor Computer Science Saint Xavier University 3700 W. 103rd St. Chicago, IL 60655 773-298-3454 vanderhyde at sxu.edu sxu.edu On Apr 10, 2025, at 11:21?AM, Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers wrote: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Help! Morale is getting low. Alice 3 is closing suddenly on students without warning. We are using Dell Optiplex 7000s Windows 11 Pro. Anyone else familiar with something like this happening? Carlos Bovell Northern Burlington High School _______________________________________________ alice-teachers mailing list alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu To change settings or unsubscribe visit: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gloria.Barron at montgomerycollege.edu Thu Apr 10 21:17:57 2025 From: Gloria.Barron at montgomerycollege.edu (Barron, Gloria E) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2025 01:17:57 +0000 Subject: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Alice may become unstable when working with large file sizes and limited RAM. If the program starts behaving unexpectedly, encourage students to save their work immediately. It?s also important to save frequently and create multiple versions of their projects. That way, they?ll have backup files to rely on in case of a crash or other issue. I Best, Gloria ___________________________________ Gloria E. Barron, M.Ed. (she, her, hers) Instructional Designer, Office of E-learning, Innovation, and Teaching Excellence (ELITE) Part-Time Faculty E-mail: gloria.barron at montgomerycollege.edu Gloria's Zoom Room Office Location: Rockville Campus, MK 330B Office Phone: 240-567-6974 Cell Phone: 240-277-6905 ________________________________ From: alice-teachers on behalf of Vanderhyde, James Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 2:25:41 PM To: Alice educators Subject: Re: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects Carlos, I don?t see it happen in class too much, but the students report crashes while working on homework projects. I remind them that Alice saves backup files, so they may not have lost everything. They are in the same folder as the project, with the Alice project name as the name of the backup folder. James ? James Vanderhyde Associate Professor Computer Science Saint Xavier University 3700 W. 103rd St. Chicago, IL 60655 773-298-3454 vanderhyde at sxu.edu sxu.edu On Apr 10, 2025, at 11:21?AM, Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers wrote: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Help! Morale is getting low. Alice 3 is closing suddenly on students without warning. We are using Dell Optiplex 7000s Windows 11 Pro. Anyone else familiar with something like this happening? Carlos Bovell Northern Burlington High School _______________________________________________ alice-teachers mailing list alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu To change settings or unsubscribe visit: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbovell at nburlington.com Fri Apr 11 08:01:21 2025 From: cbovell at nburlington.com (Carlos Bovell) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2025 12:01:21 +0000 Subject: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Hi James, Thanks for responding. It hasn't been our experience that Alice 3 saves backups for students. If there's a setting for that, maybe that could help mitigate the problem. Although I have the students trying to save as often as they remember to, there have been a few times where Alice 3 suddenly crashes/closes with the last 10-20 minutes' worth of work lost. When it happens to the same student ? even just twice ? they become less motivated to put forth effort and start saying things to me like, "This app is trash." I saw it happen to two students and a third student claims it happened to him too. This third student has tried three different student stations because his Alice 3 worlds keep freezing. We are saving our worlds to a network drive. Could that have something to do with it? (I've used Alice 3 for the last part of the school year for years now and this is the first time we've had this issue.) If others have had similar issues and especially found a workaround, I'd be happy to try to problem solve. Otherwise, we'll change direction and work with the Finches until the end of the school year. Sincerely, Carlos Bovell Northern Burlington High School ________________________________ From: alice-teachers on behalf of Vanderhyde, James Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 2:25 PM To: Alice educators Subject: Re: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects EXTERNAL EMAIL - This email was sent by a person from outside of the organization. Exercise caution when clicking links, opening attachments or taking further action, before validating its authenticity. Secured by Check Point Carlos, I don?t see it happen in class too much, but the students report crashes while working on homework projects. I remind them that Alice saves backup files, so they may not have lost everything. They are in the same folder as the project, with the Alice project name as the name of the backup folder. James ? James Vanderhyde Associate Professor Computer Science Saint Xavier University 3700 W. 103rd St. Chicago, IL 60655 773-298-3454 vanderhyde at sxu.edu sxu.edu On Apr 10, 2025, at 11:21?AM, Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers wrote: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Help! Morale is getting low. Alice 3 is closing suddenly on students without warning. We are using Dell Optiplex 7000s Windows 11 Pro. Anyone else familiar with something like this happening? Carlos Bovell Northern Burlington High School _______________________________________________ alice-teachers mailing list alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu To change settings or unsubscribe visit: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanderhyde at sxu.edu Wed Apr 16 09:55:45 2025 From: vanderhyde at sxu.edu (Vanderhyde, James) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 13:55:45 +0000 Subject: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <72FDE593-F6D0-41A5-AB0E-4CD128B79DAA@sxu.edu> Carlos, Alice 3 definitely saves backups. I don?t think it?s even possible to turn this setting off. This is what it looks like on Mac (see attached screenshot). We don?t use networked drives, so I don?t know. Maybe that makes the backups not work in your situation. I get what you mean about the students being frustrated. Mine are frustrated about the crashes and freezes, too. Despite all my years of using Alice, I would drop it if there was an alternative for novices to learn about programming in the context of a 3D virtual world. James [Screenshot 2025-04-16 at 8.49.37?AM.png] ? James Vanderhyde Associate Professor Computer Science Saint Xavier University 3700 W. 103rd St. Chicago, IL 60655 773-298-3454 vanderhyde at sxu.edu sxu.edu On Apr 11, 2025, at 7:01?AM, Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers wrote: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Hi James, Thanks for responding. It hasn't been our experience that Alice 3 saves backups for students. If there's a setting for that, maybe that could help mitigate the problem. Although I have the students trying to save as often as they remember to, there have been a few times where Alice 3 suddenly crashes/closes with the last 10-20 minutes' worth of work lost. When it happens to the same student ? even just twice ? they become less motivated to put forth effort and start saying things to me like, "This app is trash." I saw it happen to two students and a third student claims it happened to him too. This third student has tried three different student stations because his Alice 3 worlds keep freezing. We are saving our worlds to a network drive. Could that have something to do with it? (I've used Alice 3 for the last part of the school year for years now and this is the first time we've had this issue.) If others have had similar issues and especially found a workaround, I'd be happy to try to problem solve. Otherwise, we'll change direction and work with the Finches until the end of the school year. Sincerely, Carlos Bovell Northern Burlington High School ________________________________ From: alice-teachers > on behalf of Vanderhyde, James > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 2:25 PM To: Alice educators > Subject: Re: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects EXTERNAL EMAIL - This email was sent by a person from outside of the organization. Exercise caution when clicking links, opening attachments or taking further action, before validating its authenticity. Secured by Check Point Carlos, I don?t see it happen in class too much, but the students report crashes while working on homework projects. I remind them that Alice saves backup files, so they may not have lost everything. They are in the same folder as the project, with the Alice project name as the name of the backup folder. James ? James Vanderhyde Associate Professor Computer Science Saint Xavier University 3700 W. 103rd St. Chicago, IL 60655 773-298-3454 vanderhyde at sxu.edu sxu.edu On Apr 10, 2025, at 11:21?AM, Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers wrote: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Help! Morale is getting low. Alice 3 is closing suddenly on students without warning. We are using Dell Optiplex 7000s Windows 11 Pro. Anyone else familiar with something like this happening? Carlos Bovell Northern Burlington High School _______________________________________________ alice-teachers mailing list alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu To change settings or unsubscribe visit: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers _______________________________________________ alice-teachers mailing list alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu To change settings or unsubscribe visit: https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot 2025-04-16 at 8.49.37?AM.png Type: image/png Size: 689606 bytes Desc: Screenshot 2025-04-16 at 8.49.37?AM.png URL: From aziccardi at opschools.org Wed Apr 16 09:27:51 2025 From: aziccardi at opschools.org (Ziccardi, Adam) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 09:27:51 -0400 Subject: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Good Day Carlos, In my experience with Alice, she does get cranky when there's not enough RAM and also if the video card capabilities are not more than enough. I used Alice 2 for a while after Alice 3 emerged because our RAM /video combo wasn't enough. Especially when programs grew. Regarding the Dell 7000 you use; 1) Is the video card the integrated onboard kind? If so, it shares system RAM with the GPU so that is a potential bottleneck for Alce 3 to remain happy. Adding additional RAM is cheap and simple. I used that opportunity to also teach about hardware and the simple act of putting in more RAM chips is an impactful lesson. Also in my experience, Alice gets cranky when using network drives especially when the backup files are stored elsewhere besides the hard drive in the Dell 7000. I'd look where the *.bak files are saved. Alice automatically puts them in the same directory as the project file (*.a3p) the first time the project is saved. If your students are saving files, then moving or copying the a3p file, that's a significant thing that Alice won't like. Using Save As... the first time a project is saved is important so the .bak is in the same directory as the .a3p and they don't change. Alice gets upset if .bak files are moved, changed, or in any way not as they were when they were created on the first Save. Also, I've had kids open projects by double clicking on a file from the .bak directory thinking it is their primary project file. They actually are opening a backup version of their project. Then when they save it again it creates cascading .bak directories inside of .bak directories and it gets a nice recursion on the operating system loaded up sucking up all the RAM really fast. Add on top of that the need to pipe it through the network connections (traffic flow is high at the beginning and end of the period as well) when they all are accessing it at once, Alice will not be happy. I'd next look at the network storage access. If there are any blockers, security, etc she gets cranky sometimes for those too. I'd recommend USB drives (small sized ones are practically free and more than enough storage. Some companies give out promo ones with their logo on it). The USB drive really helps, too, with networked computers as well since they act as a local drive. Sorry for the long post. I re-read your message and it seems that she crashes every 10-20 mins which coincides with a .bak (backup) action. IMO do some testing with a project saved to a USB flash drive and be sure the primary file is the one being opened and saved each time. The .bak directory should rarely be used. Check back when you try some stuff. Alice 2 and 3 are the greatest learning platform for OOP and I'd back that up anyday anywhere. The online internet based stuff is good, but Alice is great for impactful, meaningful, and lasting learning. Her drawback (that she is a standalone .exe needing RAM and graphics and local access) is also a strength when we can use the opportunity to teach about directories, networks, and hardware limitations. It is not an easy path like tapping on Ipads, Chromebooks, and phones but that may not be the CS path you want to teach. Adam Ziccardi On Tue, Apr 15, 2025 at 5:02?PM Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers < alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > Hi James, > > Thanks for responding. It hasn't been our experience that Alice 3 saves > backups for students. If there's a setting for that, maybe that could help > mitigate the problem. Although I have the students trying to save as often > as they remember to, there have been a few times where Alice 3 suddenly > crashes/closes with the last 10-20 minutes' worth of work lost. When it > happens to the same student ? even just twice ? they become less motivated > to put forth effort and start saying things to me like, "This app is > trash." I saw it happen to two students and a third student claims it > happened to him too. This third student has tried three different student > stations because his Alice 3 worlds keep freezing. We are saving our worlds > to a network drive. Could that have something to do with it? (I've used > Alice 3 for the last part of the school year for years now and this is the > first time we've had this issue.) > > If others have had similar issues and especially found a workaround, I'd > be happy to try to problem solve. Otherwise, we'll change direction and > work with the Finches until the end of the school year. > > Sincerely, > > Carlos Bovell > Northern Burlington High School > ------------------------------ > *From:* alice-teachers nburlington.com at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> on behalf of Vanderhyde, James < > vanderhyde at sxu.edu> > *Sent:* Thursday, April 10, 2025 2:25 PM > *To:* Alice educators > *Subject:* Re: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students > working on projects > > EXTERNAL EMAIL - This email was sent by a person from outside of the > organization. Exercise caution when clicking links, opening attachments or > taking further action, before validating its authenticity. > Secured by Check Point > > Carlos, I don?t see it happen in class too much, but the students report > crashes while working on homework projects. I remind them that Alice saves > backup files, so they may not have lost everything. They are in the same > folder as the project, with the Alice project name as the name of the > backup folder. > > James > ? > > *James Vanderhyde *Associate Professor > Computer Science > Saint Xavier University > 3700 W. 103rd St. > Chicago, IL 60655 > 773-298-3454 > vanderhyde at sxu.edu > sxu.edu > > On Apr 10, 2025, at 11:21?AM, Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers < > alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > > *[EXTERNAL EMAIL]* CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the > organization. > Help! Morale is getting low. Alice 3 is closing suddenly on students > without warning. We are using Dell Optiplex 7000s Windows 11 Pro. Anyone > else familiar with something like this happening? > > Carlos Bovell > Northern Burlington High School > _______________________________________________ > alice-teachers mailing list > alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers > > _______________________________________________ > alice-teachers mailing list > alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers > -- Adam Ziccardi OPTA Flex coordinator OPTA NYSTRS delegate NYS Master Teacher Teacher Webpage (716) 209-6482 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From melanielam at cmu.edu Fri Apr 25 14:43:52 2025 From: melanielam at cmu.edu (Melanie Lam) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2025 11:43:52 -0700 Subject: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Carlos, Just wanted to follow up on this; if you're on Alice 3.8 there's a chance something doesn't play well with Windows 11 update. If the problem persists after updating to Alice 3.9 then we would try to get logs and chase it down. Here is the link to the latest version of Alice: https://www.alice.org/get-alice/alice-3/ thanks, Melanie Director Alice Project On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 7:11?AM Ziccardi, Adam wrote: > Good Day Carlos, > In my experience with Alice, she does get cranky when there's not enough > RAM and also if the video card capabilities are not more than enough. I > used Alice 2 for a while after Alice 3 emerged because our RAM /video combo > wasn't enough. Especially when programs grew. > Regarding the Dell 7000 you use; 1) Is the video card the integrated > onboard kind? If so, it shares system RAM with the GPU so that is a > potential bottleneck for Alce 3 to remain happy. Adding additional RAM is > cheap and simple. I used that opportunity to also teach about hardware and > the simple act of putting in more RAM chips is an impactful lesson. > Also in my experience, Alice gets cranky when using network drives > especially when the backup files are stored elsewhere besides the hard > drive in the Dell 7000. > I'd look where the *.bak files are saved. Alice automatically puts them in > the same directory as the project file (*.a3p) the first time the project > is saved. If your students are saving files, then moving or copying the a3p > file, that's a significant thing that Alice won't like. Using Save As... > the first time a project is saved is important so the .bak is in the same > directory as the .a3p and they don't change. Alice gets upset if .bak files > are moved, changed, or in any way not as they were when they were created > on the first Save. Also, I've had kids open projects by double clicking on > a file from the .bak directory thinking it is their primary project file. > They actually are opening a backup version of their project. Then when they > save it again it creates cascading .bak directories inside of .bak > directories and it gets a nice recursion on the operating system loaded up > sucking up all the RAM really fast. Add on top of that the need to pipe it > through the network connections (traffic flow is high at the beginning and > end of the period as well) when they all are accessing it at once, Alice > will not be happy. > I'd next look at the network storage access. If there are any blockers, > security, etc she gets cranky sometimes for those too. I'd recommend USB > drives (small sized ones are practically free and more than enough storage. > Some companies give out promo ones with their logo on it). The USB drive > really helps, too, with networked computers as well since they act as a > local drive. > Sorry for the long post. I re-read your message and it seems that she > crashes every 10-20 mins which coincides with a .bak (backup) action. IMO > do some testing with a project saved to a USB flash drive and be sure the > primary file is the one being opened and saved each time. The .bak > directory should rarely be used. > Check back when you try some stuff. Alice 2 and 3 are the greatest > learning platform for OOP and I'd back that up anyday anywhere. The online > internet based stuff is good, but Alice is great for impactful, meaningful, > and lasting learning. Her drawback (that she is a standalone .exe needing > RAM and graphics and local access) is also a strength when we can use the > opportunity to teach about directories, networks, and hardware limitations. > It is not an easy path like tapping on Ipads, Chromebooks, and phones but > that may not be the CS path you want to teach. > Adam Ziccardi > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2025 at 5:02?PM Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers < > alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > >> Hi James, >> >> Thanks for responding. It hasn't been our experience that Alice 3 saves >> backups for students. If there's a setting for that, maybe that could help >> mitigate the problem. Although I have the students trying to save as often >> as they remember to, there have been a few times where Alice 3 suddenly >> crashes/closes with the last 10-20 minutes' worth of work lost. When it >> happens to the same student ? even just twice ? they become less motivated >> to put forth effort and start saying things to me like, "This app is >> trash." I saw it happen to two students and a third student claims it >> happened to him too. This third student has tried three different student >> stations because his Alice 3 worlds keep freezing. We are saving our worlds >> to a network drive. Could that have something to do with it? (I've used >> Alice 3 for the last part of the school year for years now and this is the >> first time we've had this issue.) >> >> If others have had similar issues and especially found a workaround, I'd >> be happy to try to problem solve. Otherwise, we'll change direction and >> work with the Finches until the end of the school year. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Carlos Bovell >> Northern Burlington High School >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* alice-teachers > nburlington.com at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> on behalf of Vanderhyde, James < >> vanderhyde at sxu.edu> >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 10, 2025 2:25 PM >> *To:* Alice educators >> *Subject:* Re: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students >> working on projects >> >> EXTERNAL EMAIL - This email was sent by a person from outside of the >> organization. Exercise caution when clicking links, opening attachments or >> taking further action, before validating its authenticity. >> Secured by Check Point >> >> Carlos, I don?t see it happen in class too much, but the students report >> crashes while working on homework projects. I remind them that Alice saves >> backup files, so they may not have lost everything. They are in the same >> folder as the project, with the Alice project name as the name of the >> backup folder. >> >> James >> ? >> >> *James Vanderhyde *Associate Professor >> Computer Science >> Saint Xavier University >> 3700 W. 103rd St. >> Chicago, IL 60655 >> 773-298-3454 >> vanderhyde at sxu.edu >> sxu.edu >> >> On Apr 10, 2025, at 11:21?AM, Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers < >> alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: >> >> *[EXTERNAL EMAIL]* CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the >> organization. >> Help! Morale is getting low. Alice 3 is closing suddenly on students >> without warning. We are using Dell Optiplex 7000s Windows 11 Pro. Anyone >> else familiar with something like this happening? >> >> Carlos Bovell >> Northern Burlington High School >> _______________________________________________ >> alice-teachers mailing list >> alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers >> >> _______________________________________________ >> alice-teachers mailing list >> alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers >> > > > -- > Adam Ziccardi > OPTA Flex coordinator > OPTA NYSTRS delegate > NYS Master Teacher > Teacher Webpage > (716) 209-6482 > _______________________________________________ > alice-teachers mailing list > alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marussig at siol.net Fri Apr 25 18:41:00 2025 From: marussig at siol.net (Matjaz Marussig) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2025 00:41:00 +0200 Subject: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students working on projects In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Dear teachers, The simplest way to locate the issue is to ask ChatGPT. This is what I have got: Alice 3 can crash for several reasons, most commonly due to system or software-related issues. Here are the typical causes: 1. *Incompatible or Missing Java JDK* Alice 3 depends on a compatible Java version. Using an unsupported or missing JDK can lead to startup crashes. 2. *Graphics Driver Issues* Since Alice 3 uses 3D graphics, outdated or incompatible graphics drivers (especially on integrated GPUs) can cause rendering issues or crashes. 3. *Low System Resources* Alice can consume a fair amount of RAM and CPU. On low-spec machines, it might crash if resources are exhausted. 4. *Corrupt Installation* An incomplete or corrupted installation (e.g. from a bad download) can lead to crashes. Reinstalling often helps. 5. *OS Compatibility* Running Alice on older or very new operating systems without proper updates or support might cause instability. 6. *Damaged Project Files* Loading a corrupted or overly complex Alice world file can cause the program to crash unexpectedly. Do you experience a crash on launch or while using a specific feature? On Fri, Apr 25, 2025, 23:05 Melanie Lam wrote: > Carlos, > > Just wanted to follow up on this; if you're on Alice 3.8 there's a chance > something doesn't play well with Windows 11 update. If the problem persists > after updating to Alice 3.9 then we would try to get logs and chase it down. > Here is the link to the latest version of Alice: > https://www.alice.org/get-alice/alice-3/ > > thanks, > Melanie > > Director > Alice Project > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 7:11?AM Ziccardi, Adam > wrote: > >> Good Day Carlos, >> In my experience with Alice, she does get cranky when there's not enough >> RAM and also if the video card capabilities are not more than enough. I >> used Alice 2 for a while after Alice 3 emerged because our RAM /video combo >> wasn't enough. Especially when programs grew. >> Regarding the Dell 7000 you use; 1) Is the video card the integrated >> onboard kind? If so, it shares system RAM with the GPU so that is a >> potential bottleneck for Alce 3 to remain happy. Adding additional RAM is >> cheap and simple. I used that opportunity to also teach about hardware and >> the simple act of putting in more RAM chips is an impactful lesson. >> Also in my experience, Alice gets cranky when using network drives >> especially when the backup files are stored elsewhere besides the hard >> drive in the Dell 7000. >> I'd look where the *.bak files are saved. Alice automatically puts them >> in the same directory as the project file (*.a3p) the first time the >> project is saved. If your students are saving files, then moving or copying >> the a3p file, that's a significant thing that Alice won't like. Using Save >> As... the first time a project is saved is important so the .bak is in the >> same directory as the .a3p and they don't change. Alice gets upset if .bak >> files are moved, changed, or in any way not as they were when they were >> created on the first Save. Also, I've had kids open projects by double >> clicking on a file from the .bak directory thinking it is their primary >> project file. They actually are opening a backup version of their project. >> Then when they save it again it creates cascading .bak directories inside >> of .bak directories and it gets a nice recursion on the operating system >> loaded up sucking up all the RAM really fast. Add on top of that the need >> to pipe it through the network connections (traffic flow is high at the >> beginning and end of the period as well) when they all are accessing it at >> once, Alice will not be happy. >> I'd next look at the network storage access. If there are any blockers, >> security, etc she gets cranky sometimes for those too. I'd recommend USB >> drives (small sized ones are practically free and more than enough storage. >> Some companies give out promo ones with their logo on it). The USB drive >> really helps, too, with networked computers as well since they act as a >> local drive. >> Sorry for the long post. I re-read your message and it seems that she >> crashes every 10-20 mins which coincides with a .bak (backup) action. IMO >> do some testing with a project saved to a USB flash drive and be sure the >> primary file is the one being opened and saved each time. The .bak >> directory should rarely be used. >> Check back when you try some stuff. Alice 2 and 3 are the greatest >> learning platform for OOP and I'd back that up anyday anywhere. The online >> internet based stuff is good, but Alice is great for impactful, meaningful, >> and lasting learning. Her drawback (that she is a standalone .exe needing >> RAM and graphics and local access) is also a strength when we can use the >> opportunity to teach about directories, networks, and hardware limitations. >> It is not an easy path like tapping on Ipads, Chromebooks, and phones but >> that may not be the CS path you want to teach. >> Adam Ziccardi >> >> On Tue, Apr 15, 2025 at 5:02?PM Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers < >> alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: >> >>> Hi James, >>> >>> Thanks for responding. It hasn't been our experience that Alice 3 saves >>> backups for students. If there's a setting for that, maybe that could help >>> mitigate the problem. Although I have the students trying to save as often >>> as they remember to, there have been a few times where Alice 3 suddenly >>> crashes/closes with the last 10-20 minutes' worth of work lost. When it >>> happens to the same student ? even just twice ? they become less motivated >>> to put forth effort and start saying things to me like, "This app is >>> trash." I saw it happen to two students and a third student claims it >>> happened to him too. This third student has tried three different student >>> stations because his Alice 3 worlds keep freezing. We are saving our worlds >>> to a network drive. Could that have something to do with it? (I've used >>> Alice 3 for the last part of the school year for years now and this is the >>> first time we've had this issue.) >>> >>> If others have had similar issues and especially found a workaround, I'd >>> be happy to try to problem solve. Otherwise, we'll change direction and >>> work with the Finches until the end of the school year. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Carlos Bovell >>> Northern Burlington High School >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* alice-teachers >> nburlington.com at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> on behalf of Vanderhyde, James < >>> vanderhyde at sxu.edu> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 10, 2025 2:25 PM >>> *To:* Alice educators >>> *Subject:* Re: alice-teacher Alice 3 suddenly closing while students >>> working on projects >>> >>> EXTERNAL EMAIL - This email was sent by a person from outside of the >>> organization. Exercise caution when clicking links, opening attachments or >>> taking further action, before validating its authenticity. >>> Secured by Check Point >>> >>> Carlos, I don?t see it happen in class too much, but the students report >>> crashes while working on homework projects. I remind them that Alice saves >>> backup files, so they may not have lost everything. They are in the same >>> folder as the project, with the Alice project name as the name of the >>> backup folder. >>> >>> James >>> ? >>> >>> *James Vanderhyde *Associate Professor >>> Computer Science >>> Saint Xavier University >>> 3700 W. 103rd St. >>> >>> Chicago, IL 60655 >>> >>> 773-298-3454 >>> vanderhyde at sxu.edu >>> sxu.edu >>> >>> On Apr 10, 2025, at 11:21?AM, Carlos Bovell via alice-teachers < >>> alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: >>> >>> *[EXTERNAL EMAIL]* CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the >>> organization. >>> Help! Morale is getting low. Alice 3 is closing suddenly on students >>> without warning. We are using Dell Optiplex 7000s Windows 11 Pro. Anyone >>> else familiar with something like this happening? >>> >>> Carlos Bovell >>> Northern Burlington High School >>> _______________________________________________ >>> alice-teachers mailing list >>> alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> alice-teachers mailing list >>> alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >>> To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >>> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers >>> >> >> >> -- >> Adam Ziccardi >> OPTA Flex coordinator >> OPTA NYSTRS delegate >> NYS Master Teacher >> Teacher Webpage >> (716) 209-6482 >> _______________________________________________ >> alice-teachers mailing list >> alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu >> To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >> https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers > > _______________________________________________ > alice-teachers mailing list > alice-teachers at lists.andrew.cmu.edu > To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/alice-teachers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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