<div dir="ltr">Gwen,<div>My oath to the KIngdom is to speak when I feel something is not right or not done correctly, it is my job as a peer. I have never been one to sit silent and will never be. While you seem to think my complaint as baseless, I strongly disagree, part of my oath to the Kingdom is to speak when I feel that the voices of others are not heard. You are welcome to disagree, as is your right. Her Excellency appears to understand my point, however speaking out about the issue is not only my job as a Peer, but my right as a member of the populace. Anyone is free to disagree with me, or state another opinion, that is their right.</div><div><br></div><div>In service,</div><div><br></div><div>Liam</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 12:56 AM Gwenly Grace <<a href="mailto:gwenlygrace@gmail.com">gwenlygrace@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Your Excellency,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It is well to recognize that one's intent does not always match one's effect. Thank you for publicly acknowledging this, and for clearing the record with respect to Their Excellencies' character and reputation.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It is also true that the original message could have seemed like an order, being as it was, a declaration rather than a petition.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The central problem with your initial objection, however, still stands. Regardless of whether you thought the populace had been given ample opportunity to provide input and counsel, in this matter, no counsel is or ever has been required. A motto cannot be a matter of policy. There are no "proper channels" such as you suggest. Actually, that's incorrect! The "proper channel" is for the Baroness and Baron, upon seeing a potentiality for the betterment of Baronial morale or cohesion or strength or general spiffyness, to issue the sort of decree that creates those impressions of and fosters esprit de corps among Their populace, such as: Hey, let's all use "Hi, Neighbors" as our motto...only in Latin, so it sounds cool!</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I will repeat what I said in my first email on this subject, and let me be crystal clear: They are in no way obligated to consult or to involve the populace in such a decision. It is not and CANNOT be a policy matter. As such, your intent, even as you express it, was misguided from the start. Having had it pointed out to you that it is NOT a policy decision, and that you were incorrect in that assessment, you still persisted in "raising a ruckus." Indeed, even after the Baroness graciously acceeded to your suggestions - as she has continuously done throughout this evening - you continued to complain. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You are welcome to complain about the content or sentiment of the motto chosen, or to choose not to intone it. But you erred in continuing to complain about the process.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It is the prerogative of the Baronage to introduce pomp, ceremony, and pageantry to the game we play. Their method of doing so is not up to us to determine. We, as subjects of the Baronage, owe our Baronial seat the courtesy and respect of following their leadership. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">One more thing: when I said you are welcome to complain...that's not quite true. You are of course welcome to any opinion on the actions, undertakings, and initiatives that the Baronage may propose. But! As Peers, it is further incumbent upon us to render any such complaints as we might have, baseless or otherwise, privately and politely, with as much courtesy as possible, and in the conviction that no one, least of all someone in a leadership position elected by the populace, should be presumed to have improper intent. Once those objections have been lodged, it is then proper for us to keep them to ourselves, and outwardly support our regional heads. This is their due as appointed representatives of the Crown. The SCA is not a democracy in matters such as these. That is the "game" we agree to play and the rules we, as Peers, are meant to uphold.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Now. I'm gonna go watch the Mandalorian. I will see you all in the next beautiful day in our neighborhood.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Ever in Service,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Gwen</div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 12:03 AM Shawn MacIntyre <<a href="mailto:medicmacintyre@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">medicmacintyre@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(28,30,33);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(242,243,245)"> </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(28,30,33);font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(242,243,245)"><span style="font-family:inherit"><span style="font-family:inherit">As was conveyed to Hilda and Bradubh via private email: It was not my intent to make you or Brandubh look like horrible people for not seeking further input beyond the August meeting. The way I read your announcement seemed that an idea was being thrust upon without the populace having input. My intent was simply to give others opinions and a chance to submit ideas. The way I read your original post, I read it as you were making this policy and felt that proper channels should be gone through.</span></span></span> <div><br></div><div>That is all, I wasn't raising a ruckus just to do so, my allegiance is with the populace, as it was when I served the populace.</div><div><br></div><div>In service,</div><div>Liam <br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:45 PM Krista Cogan <<a href="mailto:krista.cogan@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">krista.cogan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Master Liam, I am very sorry to have offended you and any others that may feel the same. Your wife, Her Excellency Constance, pointed out to me on Facebook that my post was not crystal clear that such things are optional. In re-reading my blog post from a different point of view, I could absolutely see her point, particularly as regards newer people who aren't as familiar with the ins and outs of SCA workings. I attempted to correct that both here on the email list and Facebook. You then suggested it should have been put before the populace more publicly that a discussion at a Business meeting (August). That had not been suggested previously to me that I can recall, and I hadn't thought of it, but it's a good idea. I moved to do just that, tonight.<div><br></div><div>Since we are doing this publicly, I would say a personal tenet of mine publicly: that when
someone tells you they are hurt.
we do not get to decide that they were not hurt. I apologize for hurting you, and others who share your thoughts. If there's anything further I can do to rectify, beyond taking your and Her Excellency Constance's suggestions, please do let me know.</div><div><br></div><div>I thank all who have posted some clarifications here on the deeper aspects of how we work. They are very much appreciated.</div><div><br></div><div>And remember - Mottos are fun! Let's make some fun!</div><div><br></div><div>~Hilda</div><div><br></div>“Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors.” -Fred Rogers </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:16 PM Shawn MacIntyre <<a href="mailto:medicmacintyre@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">medicmacintyre@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Personally, I find it discourteous to not bring the idea to the full populace prior to making an announcement. The idea of not allowing the populace to have input prior to making an announcement goes against the proposed motto itself.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:09 PM Ruth Morrisson via Sca-bmdl <<a href="mailto:sca-bmdl@lists.andrew.cmu.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">sca-bmdl@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Greetings from Myfanwy!<div>I’m in complete agreement with Her Excellency Gwendolyn. </div><div>Remember — the SCA does not register full achievements of arms, mottoes, and the like. I’m perfectly good with our Baroness suggesting a motto and letting it be up to the populace to use it or not. For anyone to suggest otherwise is discourteous, and completely against everything that the SCA strives for as an ideal. </div><div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Nov 15, 2019, at 10:51 PM, Gwenly Grace <<a href="mailto:gwenlygrace@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">gwenlygrace@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr">Greetings,<div><br></div><div>I categorically disagree that the announcement represented a policy decision. Furthermore, the announcement was clearly invitational in terminology: "we hope you will join us," etc. To suggest that it was imperious is, to put it mildly, unkind. </div><div><br></div><div>As a corollary, I don't recall anyone in the populace being consulted or asked to vote about "Ad gloriam AEthelmearc" (or the original and incorrect "In Glorias" version)--it was decided by a sitting royal and it was the task of that royalty to exhort the populace to follow. We did in fact force a modification, but we could, collectively, have decided "Nope, not doing that."</div><div><br></div><div>Similarly, if someone writes a song for the barony or the kingdom, it's not a requirement that the populace adopt it. To me a motto falls in the same category, and is well within the purview of the Baron and Baroness.</div><div><br></div><div>I have no objection to soliciting suggestions, or asking for a vote, but I believe the original motto is fitting, and was chosen with only good intention. But vote or no vote, let's be clear that nothing about this appears to be a violation of policy.</div><div><br></div><div>Ever in service,</div><div><br></div><div>Gwendolyn the Graceful, Brehyres, OL</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:29 PM Shawn MacIntyre <<a href="mailto:medicmacintyre@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">medicmacintyre@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">However, you seem to have already made a decision on your own without discussing it at a meeting, your "announcement" was making a policy without discussion. It was not pointed out as "Optional" until someone questioned the announcement.<div><br></div><div>Baronial Policy Section I Subsection B,</div><div><br></div><div> B. Baronial policies may be created or changed by the Officers. Proposed additions or
changes to Baronial policies must appear on the agenda of the Officers' meeting at
which they are ratified. In this circumstance the proposed changes shall be and the
agenda shall be announced to the populace on the Baronial email list at least 48 hours
before the meeting. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:23 PM Krista Cogan <<a href="mailto:krista.cogan@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">krista.cogan@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">What an excellent idea! See what we can accomplish together? I wish I would have thought of it myself! Thank you!<div><br></div><div>See, here is the beauty of game side stuff - it's flexy!<br><div><br></div><div>~Bns. Hilda</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 10:00 PM Shawn MacIntyre <<a href="mailto:medicmacintyre@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">medicmacintyre@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">While the idea of a "Motto" for the Barony may be a great idea, I have an issue with this not being brought up for public discussion and chosen by the few, Who had input in the process? I have attended all the business meetings because they are held at my church. I think a better idea would be to get input from all the members of the barony, perhaps have a contest to choose a motto rather than singularly making a decision on behalf of the populace. While there is a "Game Side" and a" Business Side" to the SCA, a motto is something that the populace as a whole should decide. While you point out that the motto is about Love and Acceptance, it lacks the input of the many, which is the opposite of acceptance. The Hael and Thescorre's motto have meaning to the populace because they represent something special that the populace can get behind. Picking a motto is more like making a campaign saying, while your backers may get behind it, without a reason to stand by it, it is a saying, not a motto.<div><br></div><div>Maighstir Liam</div><div>7th Baron of the Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands (Retired)</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:35 PM Stórfréttir Updates <<a href="mailto:admin@debatablelands.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">admin@debatablelands.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">There is new Baronial News at the Stórfréttir!<br><br>Salve Accolens! A Motto for the Debatable Lands<br>Posted by: Hilderun Hugelman<br><br>
Note to those reading from the email list, click on the link below to see a formatted version with live links at the blog website.
On this, the eve of our third Debatable Lands Equestrian Championship (details, and schedule), we'd like to introduce to you our new Baronial motto!
SALVE ACCOLENS!
What does it mean?
HELLO NEIGHBORS!
It is the week of World Kindness Day, embodied by the greatest modern champion of kindness and courtesy, especially toward oneself and their neighbors: Mr. Fred Rogers. The Debatable Lands is his home Barony, and we hope that all our people will strive toward these ideals: kindness, courtesy, generous and open hearts, mindfulness to feelings, and to be helping and loving and welcoming. All these, we feel, are encompassed by "Hello Neighbors" - "Salve Accolens".
We hope to enact these these ideals in word and deed, and hope you all will join us. We are ALL each others' neighbors.
SALVE ACCOLENS!
Please use this new Baronial motto with gusto and verity.
(Also, it's Latin, so you can say it the other way: ACCOLENS SALVE!)
See you at Baronial Equestrian Champs tomorrow!
In Levitate et Caritate, and Cheers,Baron Brandubh and Baroness Hilda
"Listening is where love begins: listening to ourselves and then to our neighbors." -Fred Rogers
<br><br>-----<br><br>To see or comment on this post on the Stórfréttir, click here: <a href="http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://debatablelands.org/blog/?p=4056</a>.<br><img src="http://debatablelands.org/blog/?elp=viewstatus&delvid=6178" width="1" height="1">
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