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<DIV id=yiv1716737168>
<DIV id=yiv487402988>
<P>My goodness! What a wealth of information I have received! </P>
<P> </P>
<P>Thank you to all who have replied, both about arms, badges, and the proper use thereof, and also about patterns for stitching said arms, badges, etc...... Everything I have read was interesting and informative, and very useful.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>What I am looking for is a pattern for the comet, which as I understand it can be sewn in black onto my garb to identify me as belonging to BMDL. My first item will probably be a small bag to hang from my belt, probably yellow, with black comet.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>I would also like a pattern for the complete populace badge -- the white comet on yellow block field with a black background. I would like to make a larger bag and sew the complete badge onto that.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Other than a bag, what (<U>small</U>!) items could I make that could have a badge on it?</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Any and all advice or ideas will be warmly received, I welcome historic information as well as practical, SCA-related guidance.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Again, many thanks to all who responded, and thanks in advance for any help to come...</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Elss<BR><BR>--- On <B>Wed, 6/18/08, muirgens@aol.com <I><muirgens@aol..com></I></B> wrote:<BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: muirgens@aol.com <muirgens@aol.com><BR>Subject: Re: [SCA-BMDL] BMDL Patterns<BR>To: pmb_pa@yahoo.com, sca-bmdl@lists..andrew.cmu.edu<BR>Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 4:43 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1166035013>My understanding is what Hrefna said. <BR><BR>The Laurel Wreath implies that you ARE the arms depicted (eg that you are the baron/baroness/King/Queen, etc.) or that here is where you can find the barony/kingdom, etc. (as in a field banner or camp banner on the baronial encampment). <BR>When you take a position such as Baron, Baroness, Prince, Princess, King, Queen, you stop using your personal arms and take on the arms of the location that you now represent. Once you step down, you revert to your personal arms. Just as one would not paint the kingdom arms on their shield or put it on their garb unless they were on the throne, baronial arms (with Laurel wreath) are reserved for the sitting baron and baroness and the barony itself as an entity (not the individuals in it). Just think "L'etat c'est moi" in this case ("I am the state"). Remember that in period, landed nobility were often
referred to as the name of the land they were in charge of (such as "Exeter" or "Northumberland" -- see Henry V). <BR><BR>Populace badges, such as the plain comet (no wreath) as Hrefna described or the white escarbuncle at the kingdom level, are free to be used by anyone who wants to identify themselves as part of that group. So by wearing a badge or putting it on your clothes you are saying "I belong to this place". It's like painting your face with the team colors for the game (except WAY cooler in my opinion).<BR><BR>So the right thing to do if a person is interested in identifying with the barony by putting a symbol on his or her clothing is to use the populace badge (no wreath), not the full baronial arms (yes wreath). One might also make a banner with the populace badge (no wreath) to say "we belong to this place". That could go in thier personal camp or they could carry it with them to march with the barony etc.
and it would remain their personal property.<BR><BR>If you want to identify the barony (as one does with a banner), use the full arms (yes wreath). Keep in mind that that banner, once given to the baron and baroness, then becomes property of the barony and will pass to the next baron and baroness as baronial regalia (ie stuff that the barony owns). <BR><BR>Does that help?<BR><BR>Morgen,<BR>Princess of Ęthelmearc<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 3px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><PRE><TT><TT></TT></PRE></TT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Pam Bolkovac <pmb_pa@yahoo.com><BR>To: BMDL SCA <sca-bmdl@lists.andrew.cmu.edu><BR>Sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:16 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [SCA-BMDL] BMDL Patterns<BR><BR>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_614d9e49-a77c-45b3-81e9-e7eef996a0ee style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff"><PRE style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><TT>I replied off list asking for more info, so I know
which pattern to give her. But I have a question
regarding what can be put on garb for members of the
barony. Should it include the wreath or not? My gut
says it shouldn't. This drives what the available
patterns are (I have at least 10 versions of this in
various sizes, shapes, etc.)
Cassandra
--- <A href="mailto:myfanwy@nauticom.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow>myfanwy@nauticom.net</A> wrote:
> Greetings from Myfanwy!
> Hrefna's correct about the arms vs. the populace
> badge. However, it isn't
> clear whether Elss needs to know what stuff looks
> like, or have an actual
> chart/design to work from.
> I know that Cassandra charted the comet part awhile
> back to do order
> badges in cross stitch. I'm not sure where mine is
> at the moment, but I'm
> pretty sure that Cassandra or someone will have a
> copy and can get you
> one.
> Lady Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon
> Ruth Morrisson
> <A href="mailto:myfanwy@nauticom.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow>myfanwy@nauticom.net</A>
>
> > Hi Elss,
> >
> > If the banner is for your own personal use, you
> want to use what is called
> > the populace badge, which is a white comet with
> its head on your left
> > inside of a yellow block border on a black
> background. In heraldic
> > speech, the badge is "Sable, a comet fesswise
> argent, a bordure embattled
> > Or."
> >
> > If you are making the banner for the barony to use
> or for the baron or
> > baroness, then you want to use the group's arms.
> There is a picture in
> > the upper left corner of this web page:
> <A href="http://debatablelands.org/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://debatablelands.org/</A>.
> >
> > Visiually, the difference between the two is the
> laurel wreath but the
> > meaning is much more. The badge says "I belong to
> or am a member of the
> > Barony-Marche". The arms declare "I am the
> Barony-Marche" or "I am the
> > baroness\baron of the Debatable Lands."
> >
> > Your banner can be any shape: round, square,
> rectangular, or heater (i.e.
> > shield shaped.) Just make the border fit the
> shape of the banner.
> >
> > Raven
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------
> > And this above all to thine own self be true.
> > - Shakespeare,
> "Hamlet"
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 6/18/08, Elss_of_Augsburg
> <<A href="mailto:elss_of_augsburg@yahoo.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>elss_of_augsburg@yahoo.com</A>> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Elss_of_Augsburg
> <<A href="mailto:elss_of_augsburg@yahoo.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>elss_of_augsburg@yahoo.com</A>>
> >> Subject: [SCA-BMDL] BMDL Patterns
> >> To: "BMDL SCA" <<A href="mailto:sca-bmdl@lists.andrew.cmu.edu" target=_blank rel=nofollow>sca-bmdl@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</A>>
> >> Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 9:14 AM
> >> Greetings!
> >>
> >> Does any good gentile out there have a pattern
> for the BMDL
> >> device (banner / logo / whatchamacallit)? I am
> looking for
> >> needlepoint or embroidery so I can add to my
> garb, and I am
> >> also looking for something large so I can make a
> banner.
> >>
> >> I would also be very glad of any advice or
> assistance from
> >> anyone with experience in these endeavors, so
> that I use
> >> durable materials and colors that don't fade, and
> >> don't make more work for myself than necessary.
> >>
> >> My thanks to all in advance --
> >>
> >> Elss of
> >>
>
Augsburg_______________________________________________
> >> Sca-bmdl mailing list
> >> <A href="mailto:Sca-bmdl@lists.andrew.cmu.edu" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Sca-bmdl@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</A>
> >>
>
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> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sca-bmdl mailing list
> > <A href="mailto:Sca-bmdl@lists.andrew.cmu.edu" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Sca-bmdl@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</A>
> >
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