[SCA-AE] NMS--wider consideration

Chakalis, Joseph jchakalis at admin.rochester.edu
Wed Feb 24 07:46:16 EST 2010


That is about as close to a perfect summation as you can get, I think.  
I agree.
Saleem

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2010, at 6:31 AM, "Thomas Ireland-Delfs" <fridrikr at rochester.rr.com 
 > wrote:

> Hi Magnus & Saleem (and everyone else)
>
> I've been lurking.  I'm on Grand cCouncil & we have discussed this  
> one repeatedly over the past three years and I'm certain before then  
> as well.  My take on reducing Corporate expenses is this:
>
> 1. move the default newsletter subscription to an alternative, add-on.
> 2. move the Corporate offices to a different place where rental &  
> other overhead is far lower.
> 3. reduce the stipends paid to Corporate officers.
> 4. move from face-to-face Board meetings to "webinars", electronic  
> meetings that anyone can view.
>
> I agree that belt-toghtening at Corporate should take place, that  
> innovations should be undertaken, and that rational explanations of  
> these measure must be done BEFORE any increases take place.  I also  
> agree that there is a mistrust of Corporate that is deep-seated and  
> has a long history, and that Corporate has done little, if anything,  
> to overcome that distrust.
>
> Fridrikr
>
> On Feb 23, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Joel Welling wrote:
>
>> Saleem, it looks like you're the only one taking me seriously, so  
>> please
>> bear with me while I continue to argue my point.
>>
>> Well, I have to agree that the Kingdom newsletter has value.  I can't
>> tell how much value because I can't find the price for extra  
>> newsletters
>> on the SCA site, but I presume it's about equal to the $10/year they
>> charge for Compleat Anachronist.  I haven't actually read my  
>> newsletter
>> since, well, the Internet happened, but it still arrives.  I see  
>> value
>> in Tournaments Illuminated, but it isn't included in membership, so  
>> with
>> respect to this discussion it's moot.  The incorporation fees to
>> establish the SCA Inc. were paid in- what- 1970? So even if I  
>> believed a
>> central Corporation was necessary for the local groups to exist and
>> operate, it seems unreasonable to include that cost in the list of
>> things the Corporation provides.  I believe I did once use the in- 
>> person
>> contact which the Corporation provides, back in 1990 or so.  I'm not
>> sure I'm getting my $269,354.00 worth out of that one.
>>
>> By Phoebe's numbers the Corporation's budget is $887K per year.   
>> There
>> are on the order of 20,000 members.  I don't think you can argue that
>> this is a small organization.  One *fifth* of the budget goes to
>> insurance, the only irreducible expense I can see.  I absolutely do  
>> not
>> understand why, when they say they can't make ends meet, people just
>> start sending them more cash.
>>
>> -Joel/Maghnus
>>
>> On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 13:32 -0500, Chakalis, Joseph wrote:
>>> Depends. In a relatively small organization the cost per person to
>>> support the organization does tend to be disproportionately large. I
>>> think that is why the corporate office is trying to spread that cost
>>> around via the NMS, though I would not want to put words in their
>>> mouths. (Or caviar either, for that matter...)
>>>
>>> I ran a very small non-profit entity (a users group in a now dead
>>> industry) and we did not fund office overhead or insurance. Even  
>>> so, the
>>> cost per member was higher than what I send to the SCA every year.
>>> Economy of scale. But, I can understand you might be disgruntled  
>>> if the
>>> only thing of value to you is the insurance certificate. If you  
>>> don't
>>> see value in Tournaments Illuminated, incorporation fees to  
>>> establish
>>> the holding company which allows the local groups to exist and  
>>> operate,
>>> providing in-person contact opportunities for membership and the  
>>> BoD,
>>> etc. then the extra $25 per year certainly would seem a burden.
>>>
>>> And no, I don't think that the organization always makes the wisest
>>> financial decisions. But I do think that for a group comprised  
>>> mostly of
>>> volunteers it does a pretty good job.
>>>
>>> Saleem
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:
>>> sca-aethelmearc-bounces 
>>> +jchakalis=admin.rochester.edu at lists.andrew.cmu.e
>>> du
>>> [mailto:sca-aethelmearc-bounces 
>>> +jchakalis=admin.rochester.edu at lists.andr
>>> ew.cmu.edu] On Behalf Of Joel Welling
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:50 PM
>>> To: discussion at aethelmearc.org
>>> Subject: Re: [SCA-AE] NMS--wider consideration
>>>
>>> So you think it's reasonable for the supporting structure to cost  
>>> 2.5
>>> times the cost of the thing it supports?
>>>
>>> -Joel
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 12:40 -0500, Chakalis, Joseph wrote:
>>>> When you see a line item in the budget for $X for insurance that is
>>> only
>>>> the policy cost. There also is the supporting structure required to
>>> have
>>>> an organization that CAN buy insurance. So there is office,  
>>>> staff, and
>>>> all the other overhead associated with an incorporated entity.  
>>>> While
>>>> some services can be donated and that is always appreciated there  
>>>> is
>>>> also often the need to hire professional, outside service  
>>>> providers. I
>>>> presume this would also be the case with the SCA, Inc. I have not
>>> looked
>>>> at the organization's budget in a long time, so those are very  
>>>> loose
>>>> generalities. Having looked at the budget in the past, though, the
>>> only
>>>> really extravagant item usually in there is the office rental  
>>>> because
>>> it
>>>> is in a high rent area.
>>>> Saleem
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>> I have a very different problem with this.  The *only* thing the
>>>> Corporate SCA provides for our events is insurance coverage for  
>>>> damage
>>>> to the hall, and liability insurance for group officers.  Every
>>> account
>>>> I've ever heard of the cost of this puts it at or below $10 per  
>>>> member
>>>> per year.  Every year I send them 350% of that.  What the heck are
>>> they
>>>> doing with the money, and why in God's name should we want to give
>>> them
>>>> more of it?
>>>>
>>>> -Joel/Maghnus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>
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