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I went ahead and committed an implementation of THREAD-REFS: <a
href="https://github.com/cyrusimap/cyrus-imapd/commit/16747e608f32f9dd9348988d3f83cb8f1b037ff6"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/cyrusimap/cyrus-imapd/commit/16747e608f32f9dd9348988d3f83cb8f1b037ff6">https://github.com/cyrusimap/cyrus-imapd/commit/16747e608f32f9dd9348988d3f83cb8f1b037ff6</a></a><br>
<br>
Per the draft, grouping by subject is skipped and threads (toplevel
messages) are sorted by INTERNALDATE, while the messages within the
threads are still sorted by SENTDATE.<br>
<br>
I confirmed that THREAD=REFERENCES is still correct, but I have
nothing to compare THREAD=REFS results to. The current threading in
Thunderbird is close, but it might be using INTERNALDATE throughout.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/12/2016 04:44 PM, Ken Murchison
via Info-cyrus wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:578556BD.9070505@andrew.cmu.edu" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Gabriele,<br>
<br>
The attached patch is what I was thinking in terms of
implementation. It skips the grouping by subject for REFS, but I
didn't do the REFS-specific date handling. Contrary to what the
THREAD=REFS draft says, I'm not sure if the special date handling
should be done in step 4 or 6. I would have to did deeper into
the code to see where is belongs.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/08/2016 11:36 AM, Gabriele
Bulfon via Info-cyrus wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:6694663.436.1467992167335.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">Mainly web
clients, installed clients usually implements threading
internally to overcome problems with the original references
algorithm that is often confusing.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">The problem with
references is that it includes subject grouping, that is an
old netscape model of the 90s: today, we just need references
within the headers ids, or we may take a wrong message in the
thread just because it has a similar subject (for example
automatic mails with same subjects would be treated as a
thread, which is wrong).</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">Now, we're
staring to implement threading view on our web collaboration
software, running on cyrus.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">So we are
investigating how RoundCube is doing threading on a dovecot
installation, and we found it to be the same as the client
algrithm of Thunderbird, which is fine. Looking at the
protocol, it uses REFS first, probably because it has no
subject grouping by definition, and it should have a better
date sorting. Should, because I found that Dovecot does not
sort it reversed...</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">Maybe I will ask
Dovecot guys why they choose to keep sort same as references:
I suspect that claim to support refs, but actually the do the
same references functions, but never do subject grouping.<br>
<br>
<div id="wt-mailcard">
<div style="font-family: Arial;">----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Sonicle S.r.l. </b>: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.sonicle.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.sonicle.com">http://www.sonicle.com</a></a></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Music: </b><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.gabrielebulfon.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gabrielebulfon.com">http://www.gabrielebulfon.com</a></a></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Quantum Mechanics : </b><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon">http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon</a></a></div>
</div>
<br>
<hr><br>
<br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><b>Da:</b>
Ken Murchison <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:murch@andrew.cmu.edu"><murch@andrew.cmu.edu></a><br>
<b>A:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gbulfon@sonicle.com">gbulfon@sonicle.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu">info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>
<br>
<b>Data:</b> 8 luglio 2016 17.17.32 CEST<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: thread=refs<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/08/2016 11:08 AM,
Gabriele Bulfon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:13231554.430.1467990539863.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">Ok, sure,
but still two issues remain other than the draft:</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">- we need
to get rid of subject grouping in REFS, it only brings
disorder, merging stuff that is not related</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I believe that the parameterization of the core functions
should be able to handle this.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:13231554.430.1467990539863.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">- I would
try to guess why dovecot does not change sorting in
REFS, keeping it same as REFERENCES</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I would contact that Dovecot authors and find out which
version of the THREAD=REFS draft they based their work on.<br>
<br>
BTW, which clients use THREAD=REFS?<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:13231554.430.1467990539863.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;"><br>
<div id="wt-mailcard">
<div style="font-family: Arial;">----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Sonicle S.r.l. </b>:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.sonicle.com">http://www.sonicle.com</a></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Music: </b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.gabrielebulfon.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gabrielebulfon.com">http://www.gabrielebulfon.com</a></a></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Quantum Mechanics
: </b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon">http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon</a></div>
</div>
<br>
<hr><br>
<br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><b>Da:</b>
Ken Murchison <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:murch@andrew.cmu.edu"><murch@andrew.cmu.edu></a><br>
<b>A:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gbulfon@sonicle.com">gbulfon@sonicle.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu">info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>
<br>
<b>Data:</b> 8 luglio 2016 16.39.17 CEST<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: thread=refs<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<p>Is there an actual RFC? All I find is
draft-ietf-morg-inthread-01. Looking at that draft,
the only difference between REFS ad REFERENCES is
this:</p>
<pre class="newpage"> THREAD=REFS sorts threads by the most recent INTERNALDATE in each
thread, replacing THREAD=REFERENCES step (4). This means that when a
new message arrives, its thread becomes the latest thread. (Note
that while threads are sorted by arrival date, messages within a
thread are sorted by sent date, just as for THREAD=REFERENCES.)
</pre>
This being the case, I don't think we need two copies
of the threading functions. I'd modify the exiting
functions to take an additional parameter to specify
whether we're doing REFS or REFERENCES and then have 2
wrapper functions which call the main function with
the parameter set appropriately for the given
algorithm.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/08/2016 10:03 AM,
Gabriele Bulfon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:10757728.421.1467986639278.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">Ok,
it works :) but checking against dovecot
implementation, it looks like they have refs order
same as references, but without subject grouping.
AFAIK the RFC on refs says ordering of dates
within the group should be reversed. Am I wrong?<br>
<br>
<div id="wt-mailcard">
<div style="font-family: Arial;">----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Sonicle
S.r.l. </b>: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.sonicle.com">http://www.sonicle.com</a></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Music: </b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.gabrielebulfon.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gabrielebulfon.com">http://www.gabrielebulfon.com</a></a></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Quantum
Mechanics : </b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon">http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon</a></div>
</div>
<br>
<hr><br>
<br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><b>Da:</b>
Gabriele Bulfon via Info-cyrus <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu"><info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu></a></a><br>
<b>A:</b> Ken Murchison <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:murch@andrew.cmu.edu"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:murch@andrew.cmu.edu"><murch@andrew.cmu.edu></a></a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu">info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>
<br>
<b>Data:</b> 8 luglio 2016 15.22.56 CEST<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: thread=refs<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">Testing
;) and checking against a dovecot machine with
refs and same messages.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13;">Will
let you know<br>
<br>
<div id="wt-mailcard">
<div style="font-family: Arial;">----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Sonicle
S.r.l. </b>: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.sonicle.com/"
target="_new">http://www.sonicle.com</a></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Music: </b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.gabrielebulfon.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gabrielebulfon.com">http://www.gabrielebulfon.com</a></a></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Quantum
Mechanics : </b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon">http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon</a></a></div>
</div>
<br>
<hr><br>
<br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
size="2"><b>Da:</b> Ken Murchison <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:murch@andrew.cmu.edu"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:murch@andrew.cmu.edu"><murch@andrew.cmu.edu></a></a><br>
<b>A:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gbulfon@sonicle.com">gbulfon@sonicle.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu">info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>
<br>
<b>Data:</b> 8 luglio 2016 15.02.38 CEST<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: thread=refs<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px
solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/07/2016
02:03 PM, Gabriele Bulfon via Info-cyrus
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:139418.370.1467914635571.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">I can finally get back to this
after so many months!</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">I checked the sources, and I
actually see it doesn't look very hard.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">Looks like:</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">- renaming all functions like
"index_thread_ref" into
"index_thread_references"</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">- duplicate them as
"index_thread_refs"</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">- let "references" alg call the
"references" funcs</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">- add support for "refs" in
thread_algs and let them call the "refs"
funcs</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Makes sense.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:139418.370.1467914635571.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">then:</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">- completely remove the call to
"ref_group_subjects", we don't want it
at all in refs</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">- change the sortcrit to use the
SORT_REVERSE modifier</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
As long as you mean making these changes for
just the "refs" variant and not both.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:139418.370.1467914635571.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size:
13;">what do you think? may be fine?<br>
<br>
<div id="wt-mailcard">
<div style="font-family: Arial;">----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Sonicle
S.r.l. </b>: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.sonicle.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.sonicle.com">http://www.sonicle.com</a></a></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Music:
</b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.gabrielebulfon.com">http://www.gabrielebulfon.com</a></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial;"><b>Quantum
Mechanics : </b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon">http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/gabrielebulfon</a></a></div>
</div>
<br>
<hr><br>
<br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif" size="2"><b>Da:</b> Ken
Murchison <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:murch@andrew.cmu.edu"><murch@andrew.cmu.edu></a><br>
<b>A:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu">info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a>
<br>
<b>Data:</b> 5 ottobre 2015 14.04.02
CEST<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: thread=refs<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000080
2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> As far as I can
tell, the last specification for
thread=refs was here:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-morg-inthread-01"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-morg-inthread-01">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-morg-inthread-01</a></a><br>
<br>
To implement this you want to look at
index.c in the Cyrus source and add
another entry to the thread_algs[]
array. I'm guessing that you can reuse
a lot of the existing
index_thread_ref() code (which is
probably needs to be renamed to
index_thread_references()).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
10/05/2015 06:07 AM, Gabriele Bulfon
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:18262603.71.1444039631264.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 12;">
<div id="wt-mailcard">Great, Ken.
Can you give me some advice /
pointer to the sources I should
look at?</div>
<div id="wt-mailcard"><br>
</div>
<div id="wt-mailcard">Gabriele</div>
<br>
<hr><br>
<br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif" size="2"><b>Da:</b>
Ken Murchison <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:murch@andrew.cmu.edu"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:murch@andrew.cmu.edu"><murch@andrew.cmu.edu></a></a><br>
<b>A:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu">info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a></a>
<br>
<b>Data:</b> 2 ottobre 2015
19.08.04 CEST<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: thread=refs<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:
#000080 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
10/02/2015 10:53 AM, Gabriele
Bulfon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:11844453.9.1443797615639.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family:
Verdana; font-size: 12;">
<div id="wt-mailcard">Nice,
it's not a big deal for us
to upgrade to new
versions, surely easier
than porting to Dovecot!
;)<br>
<br>
So, maybe we can help with
the implementation.</div>
<div id="wt-mailcard">In my
mind, it's almost about
changing the
"thread=reference" and let
it omit the subject
matching, change sorting</div>
<div id="wt-mailcard">and...maybe
just this? How much hard
do you think it is?</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
That sounds about right from
what I remember of
THREAD=REFERENCES (which I
co-authored and implemented) and
THREAD=REFS (which I think was
last documented in 2010).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:11844453.9.1443797615639.JavaMail.sonicle@www"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family:
Verdana; font-size: 12;">
<hr><br>
<br>
<font face="Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif"
size="2"><b>Da:</b> Bron
Gondwana <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:brong@fastmail.fm"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brong@fastmail.fm"><brong@fastmail.fm></a></a><br>
<b>A:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu">info-cyrus@lists.andrew.cmu.edu</a></a>
<br>
<b>Data:</b> 2 ottobre
2015 12.59.08 CEST<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re:
thread=refs<br>
</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote
style="BORDER-LEFT:
#000080 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<div>No, there isn't. The
conversations work in
3.0 beta contains a lot
of what would be
required to efficiently
implement THREAD=REFS,
but nobody has done the
work to implement it.<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>It certainly will
never be backported to
the 2.4 series, which is
only getting security
updates and fixes for
major bugs now.<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Regards,<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Bron.<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>On Fri, Oct 2, 2015,
at 18:40, Gabriele
Bulfon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Hi,<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>we have systems
running cyrus 2.4.12,
where thread
algorithms are only
references and
orderedsubject.<br>
</div>
<div>Is there support
for the thread=refs
algorithm?<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks<br>
</div>
<div>Gabriele<br>
</div>
<div>----<br>
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Bron Gondwana<br>
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